They say never work with your friends. Miranda and her best friend, Catherine Bleish Bonandin (you probably know her as Cat, the producer of Anarchapulco), have spent ten years proving that wrong. If you’ve ever wondered what real loyalty looks like when your life falls apart, this episode is for you.
Join Miranda as she sits down with her surrogate sister, business partner, and “wifey for lifey” to tell the story of a friendship that started in the comments section of Steemit and grew into one of the most important partnerships in the freedom movement. You’ll hear how Cat recruited Miranda to write for the Homestead Guru, why she blocked Miranda everywhere for a while, and how three words in a Telegram chat, “John is dead,” had her running emergency dispatch from an airplane. When nobody else would hire a fugitive activist after the murder, Cat did. Her answer to the risk? “They can come suck my red, white, and blue dick.”
Cat opens up about things she has never talked about publicly. She explains what really happened to the Sovereign Living docuseries and its second season, how she and her ex-husband bought and lost Brave New Books, Austin’s beloved activist bookstore, and how an “activist background check” landed her a job at Anarchapulco. She also takes you inside years of family court, where the system wouldn’t protect an alternative lifestyle and even her loyalty for Miranda was used against her in court (by the other side, not by Miranda). Instead of being broken by it, she used discovery to uncover the truth, turned down hush money after her 2009 arrest so she could tell her story, and learned to swim with weights on her ankles.
This conversation covers the themes that run through both of their lives: radical honesty without walking on eggshells, giving without getting depleted, healing through temazcals and hard conversations, and choosing to be an example instead of a victim. Cat also shares her history with the Free State Project and PorcFest, her concerns about infiltration in New Hampshire, her dream of a PhD studying why intentional communities succeed or fail, and why her focus right now comes down to two things: Anarchapulco and mom.
Perfect for anyone building community, working with people they love, or trying to come out of a dark chapter whole, this episode will remind you that the people who show up for you are what make freedom possible. Grab
some tissues (they both cry), tune in, and then go tell your ride-or-die you love them.
Also on: Spotify | Odysee | Rumble | BitChute
Chapters
00:00 Introduction: meet Miranda’s best friend and “wifey for lifey,” Cat
00:34 Why Unraveled introduces the people who shaped Miranda’s life
02:02 Steemit, the Homestead Guru, and the Sovereign Living season two mystery
02:43 “You’re supporting a fugitive”: Cat’s red, white, and blue response
03:13 Natural law and what really happened to Sovereign Living
05:04 Anti-establishment parenthood and giving birth on camera
06:17 Leaving the John situation: “My children told me to do it”
08:04 Two toxic relationships and why Cat had to step back
09:21 “John is dead”: emergency dispatch from an airplane
11:10 The Telegram fallout: “Can Lily speak for herself?”
12:23 Isolation, triangulation, and the fundraiser Cat started
14:37 Untangling your reputation from a partner who isn’t living in integrity
15:09 Brave New Books: running Austin’s activist bookstore
17:17 The non-renewal letter, the lawsuit, and settling out
21:09 Jessica’s “activist background check” and joining Anarchapulco
22:36 Healing old wounds with Brave New Books
23:20 After the murder: the Homestead Guru gives Miranda work
25:09 From sovereignliving.com to the Homestead Guru: Martha Stewart, but with chickens
28:28 Algorithm changes, a dormant goldmine, and a call for a Homestead Guru captain
30:38 Why working with your best friend actually works
32:09 Neurospicy brains, radical honesty, and feedback without feeling attacked
34:53 Complementary skills: bird’s-eye strategy meets cool under pressure
36:53 Love, reciprocity, and giving without getting depleted
38:03 Mama Bear Cat and the “Cat told me to tell you” problem
40:36 Temazcals, healing together, and the meaning of their matching tattoo
42:38 Guardian angels and ten years of friendship
43:48 Miranda’s two honest criticisms of Cat
45:12 What’s next? Putting the kids first
47:04 The family court war and why the system won’t protect alternative lifestyles
50:09 Using discovery to uncover the truth (and research a book)
50:59 The 2009 Maplewood arrest and turning down a gag-order settlement
52:06 Memoirs of a Radical and why you can’t publish from victim mode
52:57 Women, get on the bank account: accountability and swimming with weights on
54:37 Future plans: a stable Anarchapulco, Europe, and a PhD in Italy
55:43 Studying intentional communities from inside one
56:08 Free State Project signers who can’t move to New Hampshire
56:50 Porcupine Freedom Festival, a New Hampshire arrest, and the First Amendment
58:36 Jason Sorens, the 20,000-person plan, and the Free State’s vibe shift
01:01:07 Infiltration in New Hampshire and resisting the urge to save everything
01:02:24 Anarchapulco becomes a well-oiled machine; making space in the schedule
01:03:49 Raising kids who don’t need to heal: “Anarchapulco and mom”
01:04:53 Cat’s loyalty for Miranda after the murder was used against her in court
01:06:12 No book until there’s a happy ending: victim or example?
01:08:59 Kudos to Cat for raising dancers, hustlers, and farmers
01:10:44 Gratitude to Cat’s parents and support across the border
01:12:20 “I couldn’t do Anarchapulco without you”
01:14:33 Doing the work: Jeff, the drunk livestream, and why Anarchapulco is different now
01:16:20 Mothers who struggled, fathers who are saints
01:18:39 The future: a US meetup tour and floating down a lazy river at 80
01:19:48 Closing: a matching tattoo, ten years later, and “I love you”
Anarchapulco tickets: https://anarchapulco.com/tickets — use code Lily10 to save ten percent and help me
Links for Cat:
https://sovereignliving.com
https://thehomestead.guru
https://www.instagram.com/rewild.child/
Transcript
Miranda (00:00.876)
Hi everybody, this is Miranda. I am back with Unraveled Podcast with a very special guest today. This woman is my best friend, my surrogate sister, my platonic wifey for lifey. We do work together, we do life together, we have giant tattoos together. And yeah, without further ado, we have Catherine Bleish Bonandin here and
I’m just gonna start by asking, How are you?
Cat (00:32.926)
I’m really good. How are you, Miranda?
Miranda (00:34.764)
I’m doing good. full disclosure, if you hear tap tapping while I’m talking, I live in a building that’s being finished. I can’t help that. so yeah, for me, the whole point of this podcast has always been one to show the people who have had the biggest impact on my life, but also these people that have had a big impact on my life tend to have a big impact on the world. And it’s not only to show to the people that might follow me,
And people in our community, but also like I’m far from my family. I’m far from my friends of my childhood. And I’m sure they wonder who are these people that make up my life? And this is my way of introducing them to everybody. You know, like my sister watches this podcast. So does my dad. So does my aunt. So for those watching, Cat has been, for lack of a better way of putting it, my biggest cheerleader. You know, like
When I am about to give up and toss in the towel and I’m mad about my situation, she’s there helping. She’s given me work when nobody else would after the murder, which I don’t necessarily blame other people. Like I would have thought I was doomed to. She has given me encouragement. She’s just given me love. She’s given me advice. And I simply would not be the same without her. so and and finally, there was a point when I first started working with you.
At the Homestead Guru, and we’ll start kind of start with that. Cat more or less commented on every Steemit post that I had for like six months saying, Come write for the Homestead Guru. now full disclosure, Cat several years before she had been married to a guy named John Bush. They had done the Sovereign Living show, and there was a GoFundMe to make the second season because me and John, we my John, we loved that show. And the second season never came out, so we kind of always had like a
Cat (02:10.22)
Yeah.
Miranda (02:29.653)
Like a mmm, why didn’t they put it out? which Cat and I later hashed that out, but I wanted to bring that up because that was why I was resistant to writing for the Homestead Guru. But writing for the Homestead Guru is how this beautiful relationship started. And what I remember when we were discussing this, I said, You do realize that by helping me you’re supporting a fugitive, right? And she said, They can come suck my red, white, and blue dick. And I was like, you know what?
Respect. So, Cat, what do you have to say for yourself?
Cat (03:03.776)
Ha ha ha.
Speechless
Miranda (03:11.467)
Ha ha ha.
Cat (03:13.08)
Honestly, yeah, to me it’s you know I follow God’s law, natural law, and that’s that. And to me, you are not a criminal. You’re my wifey for lifey, you’re my best friend, and you deserve your freedom and you deserve opportunity and abundance, and I’m here to do all of that with you. regarding sovereign living, it was actually we had recorded, I think.
The first three episodes and we wanted to do like a 12 episode season and we did have a GoFundMe and we did raise funds for that. And we do have six episodes fully produced. Maybe number six is is not done yet, but I believe one through five are done. And the reality is he and I had a nasty, nasty breakup.
And you can find I think episode one online and we started screening the other episodes at conferences around the country. but I didn’t feel comfortable promoting it when things were going down the way they were going down between he and I. I think now in hindsight, it was good to pause, and I think
Miranda (04:08.705)
That’s right.
Cat (04:37.076)
The way things are happening between him and I right now, maybe we could release them. My kids might be pissed because they’re like 10 years older now and they’re like little babies in the in the series. and they’re teenagers and they’re like, don’t put me on the internet anymore, you know. But I think maybe someday it’ll still get released. You know, the thing about Sovereign Living is that we were recording a docureality show about what
It was like to do anti-establishment parenthood, right? Getting off all centralized grids, food systems, electricity, all these different things. And it’s still relevant today. In fact, I would say it’s probably more relevant. We were pretty cutting edge at the time, and I think it could do well. So maybe that’s something he and I can explore at some point in the future, is actually like printing it to DVD or, you know, we did have some producers approach us.
About buying the show and the thing is
Miranda (05:37.399)
Or maybe releasing it in our app that we’re building.
Cat (05:41.33)
Woo, good idea. Yeah. They, you know, when we got approached to sell the show to partner with somebody bigger, you know, a production company, they didn’t want the natural health aspects in there. But we’re doing a home birth, we’re, you know, all these different things. I actually gave birth on camera to my son. so there, you know, there were things that we were unwilling to budge on, and that’s why we needed to go fund me. Now we did pay.
The filmmakers and the people who were doing it, so that money did get spent on creating the film. We just haven’t or I guess the series, not the film, we haven’t produced them yet. And I think we should.
Miranda (06:17.845)
I think so too. And to be clear, that wasn’t intended to call you out. It was more I wanted to give the history of how we got together in this whole thing. and I was really inspired by the first several episodes. I think it was the first season considered, but I was really inspired by those first episodes. And yeah, looking back, it absolutely was appropriate to put a pause, to put a pin in that situation, let it
Devolve because it did devolve and then evolve into something better. yeah, I mean, I really watched you go through all of the stages with the John situation. Like I remember being a writer for you at the Homestead Guru and you messaging me like I just left and I was like, I was in my own shitty situation. I was like, what do you mean you left? Like you have children. What do they think? And you’re like, my children told me to do it. And I was like, damn.
Ooh, okay. You know it’s real when the children are like, all right, enough of this shit, right? but I’ve always really respected your journey. And then pretty soon after I was on my own version of that after John died. but it’s really interesting. I think it’s beautiful how our friendship has really blossomed because there was a point where you kind of had to, I don’t want to say cut me off, but like you really had to like step back and let me deal with my own shit.
Before we could really blossom blossom into what we are now. And I think that was necessary. Can you give some more information as to like why? You know, why would you step back from your wifey for lifey? You know?
Cat (08:04.14)
Yeah, sure. Okay. So in I guess it was 2018, I had started coming down to Acapulco for Anarchapulco. And that was when we got to know each other in person and our real lives started kind of merging with our virtual lives. And as you mentioned, we were both in a toxic relationship, both of us with the John. Right. That was interesting. And I felt like
Miranda (08:27.455)
Yeah.
Cat (08:33.908)
The way things were devolving with your John was putting my family at risk to continue to associate. And not because you were doing anything wrong, but because he was. And I couldn’t be connected there. And so I basically had to temporarily pause the relationship. And I mean, I think I not only unfriended you, but I blocked you everywhere because I didn’t want him.
Miranda (08:50.029)
Mm-hmm.
Cat (09:02.492)
Looking into my life because he started saying things that were really concerning to me, like about my kids. And I remember I was flying back from Chicago and it would have been 2019, I guess February first, the morning of February first. And I had just boarded a plane and I saw the words John is dead come through a telegram chat.
Miranda (09:20.087)
Mm-hmm.
Cat (09:32.018)
And I didn’t know what John. I just knew it was in an in a Acapulco related telegram chat. And I had to wait until the plane took off to get access to internet. And I immediately unblocked you everywhere when I figured out what was going on. And I started doing emergency dispatch from the plane and trying to get people there, trying to get you help, doing everything I could to find somebody to go up and rescue you. You know, like it was it was horrible.
Miranda (09:42.877)
Yeah.
Miranda (10:01.645)
Mm-hmm.
Cat (10:01.816)
And I was so disoriented that when I landed in Mexico City, which keep in mind, this was like a one-night flight. I flew to Chicago and back in one night I had to go record a video for the Future of Freedom Foundation. They had me come in. I stayed in a hotel one night and I flew back. So I had been in this airport the day before. And I landed and I didn’t know where I was. I was so disoriented. I was trying to find help for you and I was so focused on that that I got off the plane and I was like.
What city am I in? Like, where am I? Like, where am I trying to go? Like, I remember feeling so confused. And from that moment forward, I knew that you were free and that we could be friends again. Right. And it was just instantly we plugged back in and started doing life together again. And I hate that it took such a big tragedy, right? I mean, it was horrible and it was traumatic, but it
Miranda (10:33.165)
Ha ha ha.
Cat (10:59.134)
I I just I couldn’t at the time. And then when that problem was gone, that gave me access to my wifey for lifey again. And I’m super grateful for that. We haven’t looked back.
Miranda (11:10.109)
Yeah, right. I and I agree. There and I’ll never forget this because in that final conversation, because we were in a in a telegram group, and I think we were trying to convince you guys to not be friends with Paul. And and you but you and John, your John both, and I think even Paolo w the y’all were just like, we’re not gonna be told what to do by nobody. And we’d were just like, Why would you choose to hang out with this guy that’s been threatening our lives for six months?
Cat (11:23.754)
Mm-hmm.
Miranda (11:38.092)
We didn’t realize you were also simultaneously cutting him off. You know, you were just like, nope, nope to both sides, right? And I’ll never forget because I was just watching the conversation. This was I had I finally had my own phone and my own telegram by that point. And I was just watching the conversation. And John just kept t my John kept talking. Shane, we’ll call him, because it’s getting confusing. he just kept talking and you were like, he’s saying, We feel, we feel, we feel, and you were like
Can Lily speak for herself? And I was like, like, And and he was like, what the fuck is that supposed to mean? And I was like, you know. and it wasn’t long after that that I was already, and you this now, I was already starting to unravel myself because I was like, damn, I’m getting literally isolated. And it was a pattern of like people would come in.
Cat (12:13.728)
Can I?
Miranda (12:34.795)
First it was my family, you know, and then when I had cut all my family off or an Acapulco, and people would come in and they would try to help me. And then they would promptly get cut off in some way or to triangulate it from them. And you were, I think, the last one that he did that with, because that’s what he did. Is he said, We don’t want to hang out with people that want to hang out with him. And you guys were like, We don’t want to hang out with people that are gonna try to dictate our lives, you know, like, which I respect completely.
But yeah, you you were and you did. Like I did not I did not ask for help. And before I knew what was going on, you had a Facebook fundraiser going and were collecting money. And it’s interesting because of the shadows of the situation with your John, like people were telling me, like, hey, you can’t trust her, she’s not gonna give you that money. And I was like
It would be pretty terrible to raise money this publicly and not give it to me, right? And I and I instinctively trusted you, but it was interesting that that kept coming up. And I’m bringing that up because you and I at the same time had to unravel ourselves from
The people that we were with, you know, like people thought I was this difficult, angry little asshole that was there picking a fight with everybody because somebody named Lily Forrester with my face on Facebook was picking a fight with everybody. He didn’t have a Facebook until two months before he died, you know, like i if you thought you saw me posting in 2016 and 2017, no you didn’t because that wasn’t me, you know.
And so I bring that up because I want to know, like, I know what it was like for me to unravel myself from that. You know, like people thought I was difficult to work with, people thought I was just an asshole. and it was really hard to get work, it was really hard to have support when I needed it most. What was it like for you? You know, like you had people telling your friends, hey, you can’t trust her because of things.
Miranda (14:37.523)
That your ex had pulled, and it wasn’t until like I had talked to you about it, like, hey, you know, I trust you, but this is this is what’s happening, and you’re well, this is why that’s happening, you know. When you attach yourself to somebody that is not living in integrity, that really puts a stain on you, you know. So, like, what was your experience in that process? And when did you think that you finally got to a point where people started seeing you as you and not?
John’s partner.
Cat (15:09.342)
Well, I think the biggest aspect of that actually came from the previous producer of Anarchapulco, Jessica. She saw me for me. She didn’t know anything about my past, about my relationship, about you know, for for the people who don’t know about my past, my ex-husband and I, we bought a bookstore called Brave New Books in downtown Austin. We ran it for about two and a half years and basically
The building across the street, it was a small building and a gas station got knocked down and University of Texas built a business school. So, like, you know, multiple stories high. And for two years we listened to jackhammering underground because they were digging out the basement for the parking garage or whatever’s going down multiple stories. And we were in a basement bookstore underneath Chase Bank in downtown Austin. And so the whole time we owned the store.
We’re listening, and this is a place where I worked when I first moved to Austin and fell in love. I loved Brave New Books. This was my community. These were my people. I was so happy to be there, so happy to be a part of it, you know. And when I became pregnant, my now ex-husband took my job at the bookstore behind the counter right before my due date. And then eventually we bought the bookstore. And
I’m not gonna claim that we ran it perfectly. We didn’t. It was the first business we had ever owned. I was never on the bank account. I never saw a profit loss sheet. I never saw any of the accounting. I was the mother of two children, and I came in and beautified the space and hosted events and things like that. But in terms of the like business part,
I was not involved with that part because I was parenting two very young children. Long story short, as soon as that business school opened, we got a letter. It was a non-renewal letter. Now we had had trouble paying the rent while we were there. And I would work side hustles to make money to pay the bookstore’s rent. And during this time period, we were living in total poverty to keep this community space open, right? Like we’re eating at food banks.
Cat (17:35.602)
I’m working a job where I don’t get to keep any of the money. All of it’s going to the bills of the bookstore that I’m not seeing, right? Because I wasn’t managing any of that. I just knew that the store needed money. So I would make money and hand it over, make money, hand it over. But people would come to me about things not being paid, really upset and really angry. And then I’d okay, we’re gonna find a solution. And, you know, I tried to help. And I think, you know, we were young, we were in our 20s, and
We didn’t do a great job. I’ll leave it at that. And basically, we got a non-renewal notice on the bookstore and we got sued by the previous owner. And in the end, we hadn’t actually done anything unlawful, right? And so I agreed to settle out in exchange for all of our business debt being paid off. And that’s what happened. but the previous owner.
I actually haven’t spoke about this publicly at all since it happened, by the way. Ever. because the previous owner started attacking us online and he started saying things that weren’t true. And I told John, do not respond to any of this because it’s not true. And this will protect us in court, right? Him saying all of these untrue things like we stole the bookstore from him, you know, all these things. Trying to say we never actually owned the bookstore, which isn’t true. I had the contract, you know, we we owned it.
We bought it from him. We were still making payments, but we were under contract, just like when you buy a car, you know. So and we were in alignment with that contract. So we ended up settling out.
Miranda (19:08.109)
Mm-hmm.
Cat (19:15.562)
Our business debt was paid off and the bookstore no longer exists. And it’s really sad. And I would love to see the bookstore come back to life and I would love to heal things with the previous owner. What I didn’t understand is how many people were furious at John and I over the bookstore closing. They saw it as our personal failures, and in some respects it was, right? but also some of it was circumstantial. This new business school got built, they raised the rent.
Incredibly. And you know, the previous owner tried to say, well, it’s Cat’s fault because one or Cat and John’s fault because we were we were behind on on rent a couple times. But guess what? The landlord actually lowered the rent because he saw how hard we were working, right? So if that was the reason the lease was non-renewed, it doesn’t make sense to me because we had a good relationship with the landlord. And we were never like multiple months behind, right? It would be like
Cash flow a week or two or whatever we’d pay half or whatever. we did have an issue with Chase Bank. The bank upstairs did not have a public bathroom and they were sending people down. And because we were so tight, I asked them to provide toilet paper and they did for a while. And then when they wouldn’t anymore, I put a sign on the door that said no Chase Bank customers. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. And I don’t think that’s why we lost the bookstore. Ultimately a church up the street
Ended up paying like double what we were paying in rent to have a youth group thing down there. And now I think it’s empty. I think the building’s probably gonna shut down because Chase Bank left. the McDonald’s behind the bookstore got knocked down. It’s now a hotel, right? So like all of these one-story buildings in downtown Austin, they’re getting demolished and big tall buildings are going up in place. But people were really, really mad. And when Jessica wanted to hire me,
What she told me, I actually don’t know for sure if this is how it went down. I’ll have to check with Jeff. Jeff, let me know if I’m wrong or right on this. But she told me that Jeff said, I’ve heard some things. Please investigate before you bring her on board. And so she did. She did like an activist version of a background check on me. And she contacted all of these people that were involved with Brave New Books. And essentially, all of it came back to they were upset with my ex-husband. All of them.
Miranda (21:30.901)
Ha ha ha.
Miranda (21:41.933)
Mm-hmm.
Cat (21:42.172)
And she came to me and she said, Look, I did a background investigation on you. I told her it was okay originally. She’s like, but I’m finished with my background investigation on you. And what I have found is that people’s real problem with Cat and John was not you, right? And so I’m I want to bring you on board. And she brought me on board. And there was someone who was a big part of the bookstore that was also a big part of Anarchapulco.
And he was still really upset. And at the there was a closing party where all the staff got together up in like one of the top big rooms in the Princess Hotel after Anarchapulco 2019, I want to say. And
Miranda (22:27.553)
That’s when he was one of the people warning me during that Anarchapulco. He was like, Watch out. And I was like, Okay.
Cat (22:36.456)
Yeah. And so we sat down and we hashed it out and we did. And we’ve worked together great ever since, right? And in fact, even the fiance of the previous owner of the bookstore and I have reconnected. And I I feel that healing is taking place, right? And my greatest hope, Harlan, if you ever watch this, current owner of Brave New Books and first owner of Brave New Books.
I hope that we can heal and I’m sorry for the ways that I caused harm. And I I love Brave New Books still. And I have this like vision that we could open one in Bastrop, Texas someday.
someday
Miranda (23:20.439)
I feel like it’s possible. I do feel like it’s possible. And I mean this kind of segues into I mean, where do I start? So like post-murder, you had the Homestead Guru. That that was what you were doing when I met you. And the Homestead Guru, I’ll let you explain in your own words in a second, but it’s essentially a blog that had a bunch of writers and we were all just writing various homesteading crafts, gardening articles, right?
And you were the first person to reach out after the murder and you were like, Hey, I’m gonna pay you I don’t even remember what it was, but I’m gonna pay you this amount of money per article we need, this many articles per week, and we will pay you. And you did for like a year and a half, despite the fact that things had shifted with the algorithm, but also in life, to the point to where I mean, you weren’t making your return on investment for those articles. We’ll put it that way. and I think that only stopped
To segue in Anarchapulco, if I remember correctly, because I had told you after Anarchapulco 2020, I told you like, I have a list of things, you know, because I hear people’s criticisms and I would like to work on the next Anarchapulco, whoever runs it, because I think I can help make it better. And instead of just complaining about shit the way that my ex did, I wanted to, I wanted to really help steer the ship into what it was, right?
But tell me about the Homestead Guru and how that got started. And I mean, we’ve discussed all different ways of reviving it, but I think we’ve also both been so focused on Anarchapulco, we haven’t really had time for it. But I think it’s important to mention in this like saga that is our friendship.
Cat (25:09.044)
Yeah, so the Homestead Guru is a viral homesteading blog. Full stop. That’s what it is. And we made our money off Google and Amazon ads. It started as my personal blog, sovereignliving.com, which has its own saga. This website, the Sovereign Living brand, has its own saga, right? So the original idea for Sovereign Living, which full circle back to the docureality show.
It was supposed to be like Martha Stewart living, except I was gonna be the host. And instead of baking a pie, I’d be like slaughtering a chicken. Right. So it was like th this was the vision of sovereign living, and that’s where the name came from. It was actually a spin-off of the Martha Stewart
Miranda (25:43.454)
Yeah.
Miranda (25:50.345)
Slaughtering a chicken as a vegetarian, by the way.
Cat (25:54.976)
By the way for my family, yes. And so yeah, I was a vegetarian. That’s another saga is my vegetarian story. For you know, over 20 years of my life, I was a vegetarian. The most recent stint was 19 years, almost entirely straight vegetarian. So anyway, although there were some foods that I used to crave that I later find out had chicken broth in them, like the queso at Chuy’s in downtown Austin. I was craving it. It had chicken broth in it. Like
Miranda (26:23.319)
Course.
Cat (26:24.414)
No wonder. Anyway, Sovereign Living was my personal blog. And it would have like, here’s a recipe for XYZ. We grew these things in our garden. here’s my daughter making a smoothie. And look, this fruit came from our yard. And here we are making whatever. You know, it was like recipes and homesteading blog, personal blog. And we got approached by a friend who has some really big homesteading.
Pages. And he said, you know, hey, if you put ads on this, we could make some money together. Cool. Started the viral blogging on sovereignliving.com. Well, because we made the documentary sovereignliving.tv, the docuseries, our nonprofit attorney felt that it was too gray to have both the dot com and the dot TV, one be the nonprofit and one before profit.
Because you’re not allowed to do advertisement as a nonprofit, at least in Texas, according to our nonprofit lawyer. And so we said, okay, we need to pull this viral homesteading part out and create its own thing. And so we came up with the homestead.guru. This is when the extensions for different types of web extensions became popular or available even, right?
Miranda (27:49.931)
Mm-hmm.
Cat (27:50.216)
And so it was www.thehomestead.guru. We moved it over. I mean, this this subsidized the bookstore, right? Like there were some articles that one article made, you know, a thousand dollars, or you know, like there were some articles that really did good. And you start compiling all these together, and we were feeding our family, we were paying our bills, and we were paying the bookstore’s bills.
And what would happen over time is that the algorithm would change and it would take three to six months to get the engine going again and then it would get going. And in 2018, the algorithm changed. I finally got things moving in a way where it started making a little bit of money again in 2019. And then I got hired by Anarchapulco and I just could not maintain both. So we have this.
Website that is a wealth of information that I just pay to keep online right now. Little bit of passive income, but I’m talking like 40 bucks every six months, you know, not a lot is coming in because there’s no new content being posted on it. So the algorithm of Google, etc., they’re not favoring the website because there’s nothing new on it for the past six years, right? So it’s just sitting there dormant.
So anyway, if anyone wants to buy a website, I have a wealth of gold just sitting dormant on a website. It’s got about 700 articles on it that are all SEO optimized and it’s ready to roll. It just needs new content. If you don’t want to buy it and you just want a partner, I would love a partner for the Homestead Guru who could actually spearhead getting content up on the website again because it’s not going to take much. And we still have the partnership with the big Facebook pages that bring all the traffic.
It’s just I don’t have the I can’t steer two ships at once. That’s that’s the short version. I cannot steer two ships at once, and I’m steering the Anarchapulco ship right now. So if somebody wants to step up and steer the Homestead Guru, I would love a captain for that ship because it’s just floating out there in the internet, see, looking for somewhere to go.
Miranda (30:10.793)
Yeah, I even I even redesigned it like last year because I thought we thought we were gonna do something with it. So it’s even been been completely rebuilt in the past year, like visually to be updated. And yeah, I mean that’s a sad thing, but in many ways it’s not, because you’re right. You are steering the Anarchapulco ship, which has become greater than Anarchapulco in many ways. and
Cat (30:23.134)
Yeah.
Miranda (30:38.637)
Yeah, I think the the union that you and I have is so rare. And we keep coming back to this because like it is in some ways impacted the team because you and I have managed to maintain this like best friendship and healthy working partnership that we keep thinking it’s gonna work for everybody else and it keeps being obvious. Like it’s not easy to work with your friends and still have that respect as friends, but also like technically speaking.
Yes, I’m co-producer, but technically speaking, you’re my boss. I answer to you, right? Like when I make a mistake, I have to tell you, hey, I fucked up, you know. Like and sometimes it’s a fuck up that costs us money, you know, like like with the Librepulco thing this year, and that one little what literal detail of a mistake, but
I I wanna know what your thoughts are and why does it work for us and it doesn’t work for and all the other situations. Because they say, Don’t work with your friends, don’t work with your life partners, you know. Like at this point, I mean I even told Paolo when you got married, your husband, I was like, you know, I’ll let you marry her, but
She was my my wifey first. And he was like, okay. And he’s fully embraced it, you know? He’s like, okay, well, what does that make us? And I’m like, well, you’re my husband-in-law and I’m your wife-in-law, right? But like, why why does it work? What do you what do you think the reason for that is?
Cat (32:09.472)
Why does it work? Well, the first thought that’s coming to mind is you don’t know this, but I bought you just a little tiny gift a couple weeks ago. It’s a little tiny gift. And I don’t remember exactly what it says, but it says something something along the lines of undiagnosed that everybody knows.
Miranda (32:11.176)
Ha ha ha.
Miranda (32:18.901)
Okay.
Cat (32:37.504)
And I got us matching stickers. So we’ve got our matching tattoos. And got matching stickers. Spoiler alert. I have a gift for you when I see you in November. So anyway, I think your flavor of spicy, whatever, neurospicy really complements my flavor of neurospicy. I feel blessed that I can be completely honest with you at all times and all circumstance. I don’t
Miranda (32:42.071)
Yeah.
Miranda (32:46.976)
Yeah.
Cat (33:04.936)
Have to censor myself. I don’t have to edit myself. I don’t have to walk on eggshells. I don’t have to like think about how I’m gonna say something to you out of fear of how you’re gonna react. Right. I can speak very matter of factly to you. And that applies with work stuff and personal stuff. And you can speak very matter-of-actly to me. And I like it when people can speak matter-of-actally to me and can just say it and
Miranda (33:27.425)
Uh-huh.
Cat (33:34.408)
I think there’s a tendency in modern society for people to feel attacked if they hear any sort of perceived criticism. And this applies in marriage, this applies in friendship, this applies at work. And I think with you and I, we are able to give each other feedback in a very healthy way.
Miranda (33:46.368)
Sure.
Cat (34:03.418)
And I know I’m super grateful for it because it it allows me to get more done because when when you have a relationship with somebody where you can just be fully yourself, it takes less energy, right? When when you have to work with somebody who might lose their shit because they have unhealed emotional whatever, or they might
Miranda (34:18.263)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Cat (34:30.176)
Cry super easily or they might yell when they get whatever. You have to exert energy before the conversation. You have to exert energy during the conversation. And then you have to exert more energy processing it after, right? I don’t have to do all that with you. I just talk to you. And you just talk to me. And it makes us, in my opinion, a very efficient team. Also, I think that you are really good at things that I’m not good at.
Miranda (34:48.119)
Yeah.
Cat (35:00.432)
And possibly vice versa. I think it’s skills. Yeah, like I could learn the skills. I used to do the Homestead Guru website, right? I haven’t kept up with all the changes and all the things. But if I wanted to spend a year learning it, I could. But I don’t want to. I got you, baby. Boo. You’re doing all that. Right. And I’m dealing with a lot of like right now, I’m dealing with a lot of the bird’s eye view, the the higher level stuff, the
Miranda (35:02.347)
Definitely vice versa.
Miranda (35:18.465)
Well
Cat (35:30.27)
You know, the strategy the figuring stuff out. And you’re dealing with a lot of the more in the weeds stuff. And we’re able to c now I can get in the weeds if I gotta get in the weeds, right? If somebody’s sick or they have a mental breakdown and they can’t do their job, I’ll get down and do the job. Literally. It happens more than you would think. And so I’m able to do every job in Anarchapulco except for probably like web hosting, you know, like the more technical stuff.
Miranda (35:44.331)
Which happens more than you would think.
Cat (35:59.812)
But I’ve either done it before for Anarchapulco or for somewhere else, and I have the skill set to do it, and you’re like that too. You’re super super versatile, right? And so when there’s a crisis during the event and a list isn’t getting printed, and I’m like, what do I do? You’re like, I got you, boo, and you come running across the venue and you’ve got your iPad in hand, and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. The attendees have no idea that.
Three minutes ago, somebody was freaking out about not being able to print a list and I didn’t have a list and I was panicking about what to do about not having a list. And you just come in, you’re cool under pressure, and you got it, right? And I think I’m pretty cool under pressure. And so that allows us to just navigate things in this really dynamic way. And honestly, there’s love there. I think that’s ultimately that’s the glue that holds us together, right? Like I love you dearly.
Miranda (36:33.778)
Huh.
Miranda (36:38.157)
Mm-hmm.
Miranda (36:48.661)
Mm-hmm.
Cat (36:53.938)
And I would do anything for you. And I I’m gonna protect you because I love you and I’m I’m careful in how I steward our relationship. When I say I can just be myself and I don’t have to walk on eggshells, that doesn’t mean I’m careless or reckless with our relationship. Like I value it a lot and I’m going to pour love into it, but I also feel you pouring love into me, right? And there’s this reciprocity.
Miranda (36:55.575)
Mm-hmm.
Cat (37:21.726)
We’re both giving and we’re both receiving. And there’s a lot going in both directions. And I think that’s another issue that makes it so it doesn’t work so well in other dynamics, at least in my life, is that that giving and receiving gets catawampus sometimes. And even my daughter was, you know, talking about it the other day. She’s like, Mom, you give so much to so many people. And I do.
I do and that’s important to me. It’s a value of mine. And one of the things I’m learning now at age forty-two is to give in that way to someone who’s pouring back into me so I don’t end up depleted. And I’ve never felt depleted while interacting with you.
Miranda (38:03.937)
Yeah, I think that’s fair. I I have a few things that I want to touch on. One of the things is like you had mentioned I have skills that I’m better at than you are and vice versa. And it’s funny to me because we’ve had people on the team that like they try to handle these things themselves and they just don’t. But for me, yeah, you are the bird’s eye view, but you’re also the mama bear of Anarchapulco. And so if somebody’s trying to one take advantage, treating any of us badly.
I am very much like, Mama Cat, come here, deal with this guy. You know, I’m very much like, I don’t wanna say I I’d let you be the bad guy, but it’s true, you’re better at it than me because I’m autistic as fuck. And so I’m just like, my first instinct is like, hey, look, motherfucker. But I’m like, okay, no, I’m not good at communicating in this way. And then I bring you in, and you’re very much like, yeah, this is.
You’ll either handle it in a completely different way than I expect, but that completely makes the the tension of the situation dissipate, or you’re just like, bye like, leave, you know, in some way or another. And I think that’s that’s super beautiful. And part of why we work well together, I think, is because there are
So many so many dozens of situations in which people will come to me and they will tell me, Cat told me to tell you to do this, or Jeff told me to tell you to do this, and I will first go to you. And nine times out of ten, you never said that. And they’re just trying to get me to do something, whether it’s give them access to the event, put them on the speaker list.
Whatever it is, and it has pissed so many people off because they cannot break that, like, Cat told me to tell you. okay, well, let me talk to Cat first. Well, you don’t have to do that. Actually, yes, I do. You know, like I do because I’m not, I don’t take orders from you. You know, like I don’t care who you are. Don’t t I mean, it’s even happened a few times with Jeff where Jeff is like, do this, and I’m like, but I gotta I gotta talk to Cat.
Cat (40:01.587)
Yeah.
Miranda (40:16.789)
And sometimes you’re like, yeah, do it. And then sometimes you’re like, no, don’t do that. And we have avoided so much stuff. And these same things I will see happen with other people on the team where somebody tells them Cat told them to do something or Jeff tells them to do it. So they just do it. And it ends up being a problem, right? So that’s a that’s a thing, but also that basis of love. Like six weeks after the murder, I was in a temazcal with you and Paulo and
A bunch of random ass Mexicans, and I tell this story in other podcasts and with other people where I’m like screaming and yelling, like, Blabby the fuck out of here. And you’re like, I love you, Boo, you’ll be okay. And and Mistar’s like, you’ll be fine, and I’m just like, you know, but like you’ve seen me come through all of that. Like we’ve been in at least three temazcals.
Mostly naked hugging each other sobbing for whatever it is in the water sobbing hugging trees also sobbing you know like we have we have done so many different things like so much of the healing stuff that I’ve done over the years has been in direct link with you and you know at the Anarchapulco staff retreats which was manufactured by you and kept going by you but like
So you’ve been there for all of the healing. You are an integral part of it. And there really is that love. Like this tattoo is the hamsa hand, but there’s an anarchy symbol. There’s the protective eye. There’s a cactus. You know, there’s a chicken for the Homestead Guru side of things. There’s even the fucking you can’t really see it, but there’s even the constellation that we were laying on the beach in Bambuddha looking up at together. You know, like it
It this is an excellent way of kind of depicting our friendship because everything kind of weaves and meshes together and it’s like this protective little bubble. So I am so grateful for the role that you have played in my life because man, when I say I have these guardian angels and that I would probably have just like how do I say this in a way that’s not gonna give me banned on YouTube?
Miranda (42:38.475)
Deleted myself from this matrix. You were you were one of the big ones. Like one of the top top ones. And it’s it’s funny, like I remember my last ex part of how we broke up was we had a conversation about two weeks before we broke up and he said, when are you gonna stop working for Anarchapulco? And I was like, I’m gonna stop working for them when I’m treated badly. It hasn’t happened.
Just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean I’m gonna stop working for because you don’t like them. You’re gonna fuck off right now. And and he ended up, you know, having to forcefully fuck off. because yeah, like what the fuck? You know, absolutely not. man, like can you can you believe it? It’s been twenty seventeen, twenty sixteen is when you first started, but it’s been ten years. It’s been ten years.
Would you do anything differently in our friendship, or do you think you’ve more or less Yeah.
Cat (43:40.36)
No, I think our friendship has been awesome. I’m so grateful.
Miranda (43:44.536)
Yeah. Yeah, so am I. I can’t think of a single thing I would have done differently. You know, like in even the mistakes we’ve made across the years of just like life stuff, work stuff, like I think my biggest criticism of you is I have two and I’ve told you them. One is I think you assume that all of your other friendships can be like ours and that we can work together and sometimes it leads to some like messy situations, not super messy, but
Messy internally, not a lot of people notice externally, right? But messy internally. And the other thing is, and you mentioned you’re steering the Anarchapulco ship right now. but that has been a big thing that you’ve struggled with is not steering the not about steering the ship. You do a great job, but steering the Anarchapulco ship, trying to be a homeschooling mother, trying to be a homesteader, trying to be a director of a
Homeschool freedom school co-op situation, being a dance mom, which itself is a full like all of these things separately are full-time jobs. And then you’re trying to do all of that. Co-parenting with somebody who for a long time was a fucking pain in the ass. Like, John, if you’re listening to this, thanks for getting your shit together. I’m not mad at you anymore. But also, what the fuck was that? You know, like what the fuck? But like, you know, that was.
Cat (45:05.632)
What the fuck is that?
Miranda (45:12.865)
That was, I think, one of the biggest things with you. And I do see that you’re kind of reining it in and hyper focusing. And so that kind of segues me into like the bigger question of what’s next? Are you gonna continue to try to save all of the world all at once? Or do you have more of a focus? Because I know that sometimes like the free state project thing, you could talk about that if you want a little bit.
There’s that urge of you like, I love that. Let me save it. And other situations, which I won’t necessarily mention the other one that I know we’re both thinking about. but we’re not gonna talk about that right now publicly. But what is what is the future?
Cat (46:02.62)
What is the future? Gosh Miranda, I wish I had a crystal ball.
Miranda (46:08.382)
Ha ha ha ha.
Cat (46:10.772)
Honestly, I think right now I’m feeling like
I have three and a half school years left with my oldest child at home. And I have
Cat (46:28.362)
Thirteen years with Josie, right? My youngest. And
Cat (46:37.052)
I want to make sure that those three and a half years where we are all together as a family unit are the best three and a half years of her childhood because there was this big chunk in the middle between maybe age six and
Cat (47:04.17)
13 where things were horrible. And there was an all out family war taking place between the Bleishes and the Bushes, and the children were in the middle. And it was horrible. I mean, it was it was it was horrible. You know, you know, because you had a front row seat to it. You guys, Miranda actually has read all of the evidence files from these cases.
Miranda (47:24.727)
Mm-hmm.
Cat (47:34.172)
She has read the emails that were sent to me and about me. She knows what happened.
Miranda (47:40.568)
The text messages, the admissions of various things that were denied publicly. That’s why I was so mad and so willing to cause you know, it’s very much like, well it’s he said, she said, and what happens behind closed doors doesn’t matter. And I’m like, but it wasn’t closed doors. This shit is on the record, you know, like this person is selling how to live this lifestyle and then saying to the court it’s hyperbole and marketing.
There’s on court records. Yeah.
Cat (48:07.36)
On court record i’ve got the transcripts yeah yeah so you know there was a point where i realized because that i think was one of the biggest sucks of my life force energy sucking me dry right and
Miranda (48:23.328)
Mm.
Cat (48:30.568)
Yeah, I I there was a point where I realized the system is not going to protect an alternative lifestyle. The system is not where I’m going to get reprieve from this, right? Asking a judge, asking a court, because he is saying the words that they want to hear, even though he’s out on stages and on the internet saying the opposite.
Right, telling a judge you don’t want your children homeschooled and then selling a how-to homeschool workshop at the same time. Right. That was really hard for me to come to terms with. Like, how can you teach a how-to-homeschool workshop when you won’t allow your children to be homeschooled? Like, this is insane to me. It was really hard. But I realized something that the court can do for me is it can get me access.
To information I wouldn’t otherwise have. So I funded some very extensive depositions, and I used our most recent court experience to extract emails from the past and to learn the truth about what was happening. Because when you are in
Court, you can, it’s a I have the I have the open records request process in my brain. So I’m using the wrong terminology right now. This isn’t open records requests. It’s discovery. In a court case called discovery. And my first lawyer didn’t request the things that we needed to prove what was going on because it was unfathomable that what he was doing is what he was doing, right?
Miranda (50:10.987)
Yeah.
Cat (50:28.338)
There were things that just didn’t make sense. And so as we went through this court process, I realized the judge is not going to defend me. But my new lawyer and myself can extract the information that I need to one, learn what’s really truly happening. And now I know I have the truth. I have the emails. I have the text messages. I have the explicit proof of what was taking place. But that is also excellent content for my book.
Right. When I got arrested in 2010, 2009 in Maplewood, Missouri, November 2009 in Maplewood, Missouri, I got a settlement because it was an unlawful arrest and I was kidnapped and put in a cage by a rogue officer. And I took about one-third of the money that I could have got if I had agreed to silence. And I told them my future book is going to pay me way more than that. And I need to be able to tell this story in my book.
And that’s the same thing. Cause John even asked me, like, why are you what are we doing with all these depositions? Where are you getting the money to do this? Like, well, it’s market research for my book, baby. This, this is content right here. And it is gonna sell for way more than I spend having a lawyer interview you and get this on the record and getting all of these emails that I can now go through and tell the explicit truth in a book.
And I also decided I’m gonna wait until my children are 18 before I go there with that book. I have some drafts of it. And originally I actually started writing this book. It was called Memoirs of a Radical. I started writing it before I met John. Okay. And it was really focused on the centralization of the Ron Paul campaign and the grassroots movement after that. And it was all these activist stories and police confrontations and arrests. And then it became really about this court case because this was impacting my life so intimately. Like you’re trying to take my
Kids from me? Fucking kidding me. And so that became kind of this arc in the story. And I realized I can never publish the story until I can tell it from a standpoint where I am no longer a victim. Because as long as I have victim mentality and as long as I’m seeing the history, you know, even of brave new books, I felt like a victim when all that was going down. I don’t anymore. I can take accountability for my role, I can see from a distance hindsight.
Cat (52:57.386)
Things I could have done differently. I mean, really, I should have been on the bank account. Women, if you own a business with a partner, you need to be on the bank account and you need to look at the finances. You need to understand what a profit loss report is. You need to know these things to protect yourself, let alone your community, right? Especially if it’s a community orientated thing. So I am excited.
To be getting to the point where I feel like all the bad is starting to actually flip into good, right? And I can say with full truth and full integrity that I am so grateful for what I was put through in family court because I now understand myself and who I am on an entirely different level.
I am living the life of my dreams, not because I was lucky, but because I one created it and two fought for and defended it. And I had to be really clear on what I wanted out of life because it cost me so much to fight for it. It cost me so much to defend it. And I feel like I was learning how to swim with weights on my ankles, which made me strong. And now that those weights are being cut off.
I’m gonna swim faster and further, right? So to circle back and fully answer your question, what is coming is that right now I really want to focus on making Anarchapulco financially successful and stable. I want to find a way to branch back out into Europe that is stable, not immediate, but like stable. Let’s get an event going in Europe. Let’s do it in a really mindful way.
Let’s do it really strategically. Let’s work with partners who lift us up and make us better at what we’re doing. Right. And I actually want to get my PhD. My dream is that once my older two kids have graduated, is that I can enter into a PhD program. And because my husband is Italian, I can actually live in Italy and
Cat (55:19.69)
For their PhD programs, they often not only don’t charge tuition, but they will often pay you to do a PhD program. And what I am particularly interested in is the study of communities, alternative communities outside of the mainstream system and why they fail if they fail or why they succeed if they succeed. You know, I live in an intentional community right now. It is approaching 60 years old.
In twenty twenty eight will be our sixty year anniversary of when it was founded. Twenty twenty nine is when the school opened here on site. And there have been moments where it almost failed. And what did the community have to do to survive? You mentioned the stuff with the Free State Project. I’m a signer of the Free State Project. I signed in two thousand seven. So did you, Miranda? not in two thousand seven, but I think a couple of years after me. So twenty twelve, okay.
Miranda (56:17.111)
Twenty twelve.
Cat (56:19.69)
So we’re both signers of the Free State Project. Both of us legally are geographically restricted somewhere else. You can’t go there, neither can I. I have to live in Texas because that’s where my children are geographically restricted. You have to live in Mexico because you’re fucked and you can’t go back to the United States, right? Like.
Miranda (56:39.181)
Yeah, for now.
Cat (56:42.558)
That’s just that. But we can still support these projects from afar in the ways that we are able to. And for me, that has looked like attending the Porcupine Freedom Festival and speaking at their events. It has looked like donating, sponsoring. We ran a stage there with the Anarchapulco two summers ago. There’s been all sorts of ways.
That my life was interconnected. And 10 years ago, I was more deeply embedded, right? I attended nine Porcupine Freedom Festivals. I, which now is equal for PorcFest and Anarchapulco, and this next year will be my 10th Anarchapulco, which means I will have officially been to more Anarchapulcos than Porcupine Freedom Festivals. I was arrested. My second arrest was in New Hampshire. So I’m kind of trauma bonded with some of the activists out there. David
Miranda (57:34.165)
But
Cat (57:36.554)
Krause was sitting down in front of a police car and they drug him, you know, out into the road. And I followed videotaping. And I was arrested. And it was really traumatic because they had a a dog that was like bearing its teeth and barking at me. And the words that came out of my mouth saved me in court. I said, do not stick that dog on me. I’m here to document this. And I was. I was videotaping. That’s why I was there. And First Amendment has prevailed in both.
Of my cases, my criminal arrests were both defended by the US Constitution. So in that regard, I’m grateful that I was born and raised in the United States where free speech is often still protected constitutionally in court. I really love the Free State Project and I believe in what they’re doing. And for those of you who don’t know, it is this project designed to bring 20,000 people of a libertarian mindset to live.
In New Hampshire. They picked New Hampshire. It was founded by this genius, Jason Sorens, who have so much respect for. He spoke at Anarchapulco last year. And he had this idea that if we find a small geographic location that is already relatively free, can we bring 20,000 people there and make it the freest state in the world? And it got down to between Montana and New Hampshire. In fact, some people moved to Montana. There’s a free state project Montana spinoff that I don’t think got much traction.
But the the one in New Hampshire really, really took off. And of course, with the Move Here project, the first people to arrive are gonna be the most unstable. It’s gonna be the people with nothing left to lose back home, people who lost their job, broke up with a relationship. lack of stability gives people the freedom to move quickly, right? And so when I was out there and visiting.
That was something I noticed is that, we’re in this stage of this move here project where a bunch of young, reckless party animals have shown up and it wasn’t the vibe for me. So I ended up picking Texas. I went back in 2018 after a break, I think 2014 to 2018, I hadn’t gone to the event. I was like, wow, okay.
Cat (59:59.882)
They’re starting to make progress here. There’s families. You know, they have a they have a saying, breeding out statism. I love it. It’s hilarious. So they’re trying to have a bunch of freedom babies. Yes, go for it. Breed out statism. And so there was this family vibe that was starting to develop in 2018. I had another gap, and I didn’t go again until 2020. This is six. I went into 2024. I went back and I was like, wow, okay.
Now the stable people are here, right? Now the families have arrived, the business owners are here. Like you could tell there was a major vibe shift. And I started to feel like, all right, this is somewhere. Now I feel like I would be more willing to, you know, re reorientate my life around. I’m here in Texas for now, you know, until my till my
And who knows what I’m gonna do next, but the Free State Project is something that I feel very passionate about and that I love. And we don’t need to talk about it right now, right now, but if at any point we want to, it does appear that there has been an infiltration of the Free State Project and of the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire. And so that’s what Miranda you were referring to most previously, is draining in my energy. Like, do I want to
Get involved with that and how involved do I want to get because I feel protective, right? Of the Free State Project. And I’ve been interacting with the board and the executive directors and the community out there and a lot of community that I was super connected with before I had kids and I was out in New Hampshire all the time. Now we’re reconnecting and like wow. I was in my own like family court drama, Anarchapulco.
Was hard for several years, right? We had back-to-back hurricanes. We had just it was hard. We we ran the event during the COVID shutdown. Like it was a hard event to produce. Okay. Like it it has taken a lot out of me to do Anarchapulco. And so I had to get like this and really focus on Anarchapulco while I’m being attacked in family court, right? And just focus, focus, focus. Got this thing happening, focus, focus, focus. Well now that external family court thing has relieved.
Cat (01:02:24.456)
Anarchapulco is not so hard anymore because we’ve built systems and we’ve built a team and we’ve we’re like a well-oiled machine that’s proceeding forward, so it’s not taking out of me what it used to. And I’m kind of like looking around and like, no. New Hampshire’s under siege, they’ve been attacked, they’ve been infiltrated from the inside. And like, yes, I have that desire to help. No, I’m not gonna go relocate to New Hampshire and try to save the day.
Will I try to find a way to plug in in small ways? Probably. I’ve also unplugged from the school here at Greenbrier a little bit, the community where we live. You know, I was teaching, really involved in a lot of ways. I’m still the treasurer of the board. I’m, you know, doing development director stuff. I’m trying to get grants and trying to bring in resources. But that pull on my time has been great re greatly relieved. I’m I’m not
Doing a regular teaching schedule. I’m not attending the teacher meetings. I’m really trying to create some spaciousness in my schedule and I’m fighting that temptation to fill it up with other things. Right. So yeah, I think I really want to focus on creating an amazing four years, five years because my my middle child is well for them to just
Have an amazing end to their childhood so that they don’t go out into the world as adults that have trauma that needs to be healed. Like I want for them to have an experience where they’re able to move through that and work through that as children, and so that they’re able to enter into adulthood as whole healed people with the skill set to know.
How to overcome and recover from traumatic things because what they went through in those middle years where there was this all out battle taking place over their childhood and over my motherhood. you know, I I want them to really have an amazing end of their childhood. And that’s what I want to focus on, which means I can’t take on a bunch of other stuff. I need to Anarchapulco and mom.
Cat (01:04:44.626)
And Anarchapulco and mom, and that needs to be the thing that’s taking place right now. So very long winded answer to your question.
Miranda (01:04:53.951)
Yeah, so I I’ve I’m sure you saw maybe you saw I was taking notes because I have a lot of things I want to touch on. One of the things that I think is worth mentioning here that I don’t think we’ve ever mentioned publicly. We’ve talked about it like among friends and stuff, is and we also talked here, sorry about the noises. We’re just gonna pause for a second. Yeah, I think it’s the roof. I think it’s the finishing
Cat (01:05:16.445)
I do hear it now.
Miranda (01:05:21.375)
Making roof nice. Anyway. the fact that you helped me right after the murder was used against you in court. It was a thing that was brought up as to why you were not in a good situation to have the majority of control over your kid’s life because you were helping a fugitive activist after a murder was committed at the house. And
You know, that’s just a testament to the sacrifice that you do for your friends and for the people that you love. and then beyond that, like when you’re talking about your book, and this is the same reason people have been telling me, I you have to write a book, where’s your book, where’s your book, where’s your book? And it’s like, Rose, I’m still living it.
You know, like I haven’t gotten my fully happy ending yet and I’m not releasing it until I have somewhat of a happy ending. And I think the same thing is true for you, you know, like nobody likes to read a book about all these, you know, from your activist struggles and then you go into and even some of the stuff that you dealt with as a childhood with your as a child with your mom and stuff. Nobody wants to read all that and then be like, Yeah, we’re still like, you know, my ex and I still hate each other and
Cat (01:06:13.776)
Okay.
Miranda (01:06:42.901)
There’s this problem and there’s that problem and nothing’s resolved, right? so you have to live the ending and you have to heal the situation. And the the the victimhood thing that has really spoken to me because, like you can see, I have my comic that I’ve been working on, and that comic and putting that out has forced me to determine how do I want to be remembered? Do you want to be remembered as a victim of circumstances?
Or do you want to be remembered as somebody who, like, yeah, I went through this shit and I had my victim moment and now I’m not a victim, you know, and all these things needed to happen. And I think that’s part of what kept you and I so close over the years is because like there’s a lot of things of our lives that are very different. I’m not a mom. I’m just not, you know. And we both had the same choice at the same time. Do we want to be victims or do we want
To, you know, set a good example for the people watching us. For me, it’s for the people that follow my story, it’s for my niece, it’s for my nephew, and for you, it’s directly your kids, right? And I think the biggest goal of anybody who is a parent right now should be to raise kids that don’t need to heal. And that doesn’t mean they don’t go through things. But like there is something truly special to like.
Going through stuff with your kids. My sister’s experiencing this right now with my niece, and I’m not gonna put their business out, but there was some, and I updated you on that yesterday, there was some crazy shit going on, and it is just resolved. And why is it resolved? Because my sister handled it in a way that healed my niece, you know, and I think that’s beautiful. And I think you are doing that with your kids. and even despite all that, like despite the war.
Like your kids, all of them are residents in Mexico. Like, your youngest daughter is entitled to be an Italian citizen. Like, they live in this like little fairyland in the woods in fucking Texas. Your daughter is following her dreams as sh she could do professional dance, like ballet if she wanted, because she’s amazing at it. You have done
Miranda (01:08:59.201)
Despite everything, I do want to give you kudos. You have done a really good job of nurturing how they work. Even Bill, like Bill has always been one of the best hustlers I I’ve known because that kid has a money mindset and he has a business mindset, but he’s also like he knows how to farm, you know, he knows how to cut down trees and stuff like that. Like he’s going. And I I’m very curious.
To see what your children are like 10 years from now when Allie is off, I don’t know, dancing for some professional company and Bill’s got his own little business of some kind. And Josie, like, I can’t even predict what she’s gonna do. I could see her ending up in Cirque du Soleil because of her gymnastics love and her. So I just want to give you that kudos because I think you are already.
Achieving a lot of that stuff. And I think Anarchapulco it’s not so separate from that, you know. Like you’re giving them this is what it’s like to run an organization. This is what it’s like to run an event. You know, the way that you communicate with the world is really special. And yeah, you have helped me become a better human. And I hope that I have done the same for you.
Miranda (01:10:27.565)
Don’t cry, because if you cry I’ll cry.
Cat (01:10:34.816)
I’m gonna try not to. I love you so much. And I’m so grateful. And you know, I feel like
Miranda (01:10:36.173)
Yeah, I love you too. Yeah.
Cat (01:10:44.466)
I really need to express some gratitude to my parents for how they supported the kids and I through the really tough years, you know, they put us all through therapy.
The kids and myself and you know my mom bless her soul rest in peace I feel like her her last like dying gift was was to protect me and the kids and you were there through the whole thing Miranda I I could have never imagined I could have I mean I even like I I was telling
You know, the court actors like the guardian ad litem, I’m like, he’s bluffing. He he’s he doesn’t want this. He’s he’s a philosophical libertarian, you know, like he doesn’t he doesn’t want the things he’s asking for. It doesn’t make sense. I I had trouble accepting reality and you were there through it all. And while I was scared, even if you couldn’t physically hold my hand, you you held it through the phone, through the internet.
Across the border, and when I was sad.
Even when you couldn’t physically hug me when we weren’t in Mexico together at the same time, you energetically would hug me across the border, through the phone, through the internet. And you’ve just been such an amazing support system for me. And
Cat (01:12:20.412)
I feel blessed and I feel super grateful. And that trickles down to the kids too, you know. And I have tried to be vulnerable with the kids while only sharing with them what is child appropriate, you know. but I work in front of them. I want them to see what it takes to do this, you know. Like if you want to run a business, you gotta watch someone run a business to understand really what it takes to do.
And it’s not easy and it it’s a lot of sacrifice and
I feel really strongly that I couldn’t I couldn’t do Anarchapulco without you. You are such an integral part of it. And I just I can’t even imagine like it’s incomprehensible to me that we would be able to do it without you. I just you you are such an important part of my life, personally and professionally, and you’re such a great friend. And I think you are an amazing.
Leader and mentor, and I learned so much from you. And I love watching your evolution. I mean, just anyone who saw you 10 years ago and sees you now knows like you have done the work. And you know, circling back to why it works between us is that I think we’re both doing the work, right? And we’re we’re doing it together and we’re
Individual unique issues that we both have and putting them in the past and moving forward together and it’s just so beautiful and and I’m I’m so grateful and I feel like I have the most incredible support system in the world and I feel like you do too. I I feel like the relationship you have with your family is beautiful.
Cat (01:14:22.04)
You and your dad and you and your your siblings and it’s just like so special and so magical and
Yeah, I just love you. I love you so much.
Miranda (01:14:33.813)
Yeah, I love you too. I’m not gonna get too much into that or I will cry more than I already am. But it’s interesting that you mentioned doing the work ’cause that’s what Jeff talks about a lot. And people have a lot of criticisms over Jeff and Jeff’s done a lot of stupid shit over the years. And Jeff has also done a lot of really great shit over the years, you know, like Anarchapulco exists, you know, albeit because he was drunk talking about it on a live stream and didn’t even remember until people were like, So where do we buy tickets? And he’s like, For what?
Like what do you mean by tickets where goes and watches drunk live stream. shit. Okay, let me figure this out, right? but he’s also done the work. Right. He’s also done the work. And it’s you know, I I do want to mention because there are a lot of people that are like, I went to Anarchapulco in twenty seventeen and yeah, I know what that’s about. I’m not going back. Respectfully, no, you don’t. You know, like it’s completely different. And it’s because of the way that we have
Cat (01:15:11.648)
I guess we’re doing a conference.
Miranda (01:15:31.541)
Run it like we have really together, but especially you dug in, looked at, you know, maybe parasitical aspects, or just systems that weren’t working. And we built these systems and we maintain them, even if it pisses people off sometimes, or we get con accused of being bureaucratic because we have our speakers ag make agreements with us, right? Because God forbid we have agreements written down.
But yeah, and you mentioned the family thing. That’s what something I wanted to mention too, both you the the support of your parents, right? And the support of my family. I think that’s a big thing that you and I have in common because it is very
Rare for this exact dynamic to happen among friends. Usually you have a girl over here that’s got daddy issues and then you have the girl over here that’s got mommy issues. And/or sometimes they’re both or sometimes they had great parents, you know, like but you and I have a similar dynamic in that our moms were deep down good people that struggled and made a lot of fucking mistakes.
And those mistakes impacted us negatively, you know, a lot of the time. And both of our moms, before their dads, tried to get their shit together and get the priorities in a row, and then they end up dying because you know life is fleeting. But the thing that you and I have, and I think this is a big part of why we are okay, and I I I know for sure on my end is both of our dads are fucking saints. You know, like I’ve met your dad.
Like for those watching this, Cat’s dad is like the most wholesome all American, like just you know, proper American guy. But he’s like, he fights for his kid, he’s he’s sweet, he fights for his grandkids. He is just I don’t think there’s really anything that can be bad that could be said about him, right? And the same thing for my dad. Like, my dad’s you know, he’s kind of like the grungy hippie.
Miranda (01:17:43.106)
But he’s an absolute fucking saint. And yeah, I mean, it just goes to show the role of a father’s daughter or father in their daughter’s life. Cause that is the difference between, in my opinion, whether or not we can have the strength to stand up and walk through the shit that we’ve been through, or we just like, whatever, I’m just gonna become toxic and a fucking mess, because that’s what a lot of people do. You know, a lot of people go through shit similar to what you and I went through, and they’re like,
I’m gonna be a drug addict now. Or I’m just gonna be a toxic piece of shit. You know, like I’m gonna be unhealthy. I’m gonna be this, I’m gonna be that. And I think we’ve both done a really good job of that. So before I make us both start sobbing on screen, I’m just gonna say thank you. I love you, thank you for taking the time to do this. and I what the future that I see.
Is me getting my legal shit fixed, and we were talking about the idea of like what if we did a tour of the United States doing meetups, promoting Anarchapulco? Like, I see that happening. You know, I have friends all over the United States who’ve personally invited me to stay with their houses, and I see us doing that and then like traveling the world. And I did I should have sent this to you, but I saw this meme yesterday, and it was like, if the friendship doesn’t end like this, I don’t want.
And it was video taken above from above of two old women in a lazy river in floaties holding hands, floating. And they were like 80 years old. And I was like, that’s gonna be me and Cat. We’re gonna be old on a cruise ship somewhere, just vibing, talking about our activist days and how we survived the government and difficult men and
Cat (01:19:23.28)
No
Miranda (01:19:38.985)
All of the all of the various things. So yeah, thanks for doing life with me. And thanks for doing this podcast. Yeah. To many more years. You know, most people and it’s funny because when I tell people that I have a tattoo with my best friend, they’re like, it’s like a little and I’m like, it’s this one. They’re like, but they’re like, but what if it goes bad? And I’m like, it it’s not gonna go bad. You know, we got that in twenty twenty three, I wanna say, after seven years of like
Cat (01:19:44.842)
Thanks for doing life with me.
Cat (01:19:56.726)
If you sound like
Miranda (01:20:08.457)
If it was gonna go bad, it’d have gone bad by then. So yeah, I think that’s where we close this. And I love you.
Cat (01:20:21.984)
I love you.
Miranda (01:20:24.078)
Okay, I’m gonna press stop.