Bitchute link: https://www.bitchute.com/video/8b3XCPSxCTCf
In a world where many voice their frustrations but few take action, Tom Shaw shares his journey from aspiring dentist to freedom advocate, challenging the status quo and inspiring others to live authentically. If you’re tired of simply consuming information and are ready to take control of your life, this episode is for you.
Join Miranda as she and Tom dive deep into his transformative experience at Anarchapulco and how it ignited his passion for genuine freedom and community. Tom, who first attended the event as a volunteer, found a vibrant network of individuals focused not on complaining about the state of the world but on creating meaningful change. You’ll discover how his initial skepticism about the establishment led him to a path of self-discovery and empowerment, rejecting a conventional career in dentistry that didn’t align with his values.
You’ll hear about the pivotal moments that shaped Tom’s journey, including his eye-opening experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic. After witnessing the drastic shifts in public health narratives, he realized that the truth about health and wellness was being overshadowed by political agendas. Tom shares his insights on the importance of living freely and the unique contributions he believes individuals can make to foster a more liberated society.
This conversation touches on critical themes such as the difference between complaining and taking action, the importance of genuine community, and the power of living authentically. Tom emphasizes that true freedom comes from within and encourages listeners to explore their own paths to liberation.
Perfect for anyone feeling stuck or overwhelmed by the world’s challenges, this episode will inspire you to take actionable steps towards a life of autonomy and purpose. Tune in and get ready to redefine what freedom means to you!
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and guest background
02:29 The shift from complaining to doing in activism
03:43 The evolution of anarcho events and community focus
05:20 Tom’s first experience at anarcho events
06:20 The importance of action over whining
07:46 Experiences during COVID and Mexico chaos
09:36 Living free and taking control of life
10:42 Online community conflicts and personal growth
12:16 Living in accordance with your design
13:18 Tom’s journey from college to freedom lifestyle
14:19 The courage to buck societal expectations
16:14 COVID, control, and the health system
17:42 The truth about medical and dental systems
19:08 Holistic dentistry and ethical choices
20:55 Mexico chaos, cartel wars, and personal safety
23:08 Experiences during political upheaval in Mexico
25:21 The impact of emotional states on health
27:37 Tom’s poetry and creative expression
28:52 Tom’s published works and poetry readings
32:48 Atlas Shrugged and the concept of the world shrugging
36:43 Mexico chaos, community response, and personal safety
45:00 Reflections on chaos, control, and personal responsibility
50:00 Using human design for decision-making and life strategy
54:20 The value of waiting and emotional decision-making
01:00:07 Living in alignment with your design
01:01:57 Applying human design to entrepreneurship
01:06:24 The importance of self-awareness and community understanding
01:11:15 Future plans, travel, and personal growth
01:13:22 Upcoming projects and how to follow Tom Shaw
Anarchapulco tickets: anarchapulco.com/tickets use code Lily10 to save ten percent and help me
Links for Tom:
Substack: https://tomshawwritings.substack.com/
Sneak Peek at New book: https://www.lulu.com/shop/tom-shaw-and-ulysses-xyz/rewritten-rules/hardcover/product-w4g4kne.html?q=rewritten+rules&page=1&pageSize=4
Transcript:
Miranda (00:00.844)
Hi everybody, this is Miranda. We’re back with a new episode of Unraveled. I have to give my obligatory but also with love plug for Anarchopolku who pays for the software for me to to yeah, Tom’s making me laugh.
Tom Shaw (00:19.074)
And if you missed us this year, you can catch us at twenty twenty seven and early birds are live now at anarchapulco.com Not for much longer, there we go.
Miranda (00:26.114)
Although not for much longer. I’ve been asking I’ve been asking Kat how much longer. She has not we have not been able to determine that yet, but we are gonna be, you know, gearing up now that LibraPulco is done. And I’m just gonna get right into it. My guest today is Tom Shaw, another person I have met through Anarchipulco.
who we found through Libra Polco. So we might as well get into how we know each other. All the first thing I heard from you is Tom was a volunteer at the first Libra Polco, and we have to hire him and he has to be part of the team. And then I was like, okay. And then when I met him in person, I understood because he’s always got this big smile on his face. And even when things are stressful, he’s not stressing. So Tom, how’d you find out about our little family?
Tom Shaw (01:18.436)
I find out because another one of the speakers who was invited to the first year of Libra Pulco, Tess Laurie, was a personal friend of mine. and I just happened to be free that weekend and or that week and fancied an adventure. So I thought, huh, let’s let’s go along. I’ve never been to Serbia. Let’s go have an adventure, let’s find out. And ironically one of my other friends ended up being there who I had no idea was gonna be there. So that was fun and it was a vibe.
And then I got introduced to the the world of anarchopolco, Libapulco, fund people who are making liberty. I think that’s making freedom. I think that’s that’s the difference for me. I’ve been in so many communities in the UK where it’s just like, the government’s doing this and that and it’s bad and we’re just gonna shout and no, we don’t want any of this, whereas being introduced to all everyone
in the anarchopolco community and everyone who dovetails out of that, it’s all people who are actually interested in j not whining and actually getting getting shit done, which I like.
Miranda (02:29.366)
I gotta tell you it wasn’t always that way in the beginning. I I’m I’m known for famously complaining about it because in the anarch anarchist series it shows a lot about the criticisms that were coming out of
Tom Shaw (02:31.51)
It wasn’t from what I hear, it wasn’t always that way.
Miranda (02:45.672)
Me during the first Anarchopulco I attended, and technically speaking, up until my ex died, he was the one that was posting everything from my Facebook. So if you if you knew me before 2019 on online, no, you didn’t. However, I I do did agree with the fact that like the first year of Anarchopolco I went to, I would say 40 to 50% of the speakers are like, I’m new to this anarchy thing. So
I’m new to this, right? And then like the other ones were just like, we’re fucked. These are the problems. We’re fucked. So we might as well just, I don’t know, part party ourselves into oblivion, right? And that was our criticism. That’s why we created Anarchoforco, which is now Agora Forco, as you know. And it the whole point was like, how about we actually like try to do anarchy instead of just like complaining about the statist world, right? And so you came in.
In what I call the golden age. Now I get unbiased, right? I get, you know, I’m I’m like I don’t have a idea of the percentage of the shift of anarchopolco I’m responsible for. But I came in with the idea of like, can we promote people that are like doing the thing, that are living the thing, and bring those people together? And it it so far has worked.
And yeah, so Kat told me that she had a moment with you at Libra Polco where you would come up to her and you were you were like, Do you need anything? And she was basically like, Yeah, you on the team. And so you came in, if I remember correctly, first on volunteers, which that was the least chaos volunteers had ever had in the the process of like people coming in and, you know, helping to make the event happen.
So what was your first like what were your feelings of your first Anarchopolco? Because you really kind of dived in with the team in a staff retreat. And I won’t name what ceremony we were in, but what I do remember from you in that ceremony, and all and I did think it was Zuly at first because it sounded like him, you laughed for hours. His hysterically.
Tom Shaw (04:59.542)
I did.
Miranda (05:02.598)
And so we’re like on the beach having a ceremony of sorts and in the distance, it’s just this like uncontrollable laughter that really set the vibe. So like what was your first experience with Anarchopolka? How was that?
Tom Shaw (05:20.992)
un uncontrollable laughter is is probably a good encapsulation of the of the vibe. I enjoyed it. It was great and I suspect my experience of it is different considering that I’ve gone into an Archapulco itself as staff first and foremost and not just come along as an attendee. which I actually preferred because I like even with other events it’s like I could go to another event or conference or whatever and after time it’s be like
feel like I should be doing something and not just listening to talks or whatever and it’s like when I’m there is stuff it’s like, okay, I can I can actually do stuff and get shit done and have conversations in between all those things that made that make that experience really rich for me. And yeah, I just love the I still love the vibe of yeah, being around people who are more interested in getting shit done than just
whining about the state of the world. There’s a little bit of that that happens still and I think everyone needs that outlook, but it’s that happens with the knowledge of, okay, we’re the ones who’ve got to do something about that. That’s that’s rules without rules.
Miranda (06:23.585)
I mean it’s it
Miranda (06:30.922)
At least in our own lives. Yeah. And it’s funny you said that comment about attending other conferences and feeling like you should be doing something. I have attended exactly one conference that I wasn’t working since
I mean, I’ve always in some way worked anarchapulky. Even when I wasn’t on the team, I was selling, like I I was making pipes, I was selling edibles, I was I was always working during the conference, right? and then I went to Moneritopia, I wanna see, in 2023. This was when I first got with my partner, and he bought me a ticket and we attended as, you know, just attendees. And there was this there was this moment where I was talking to Doug, who kind of
Tom Shaw (06:58.188)
Mm.
Miranda (07:17.034)
is like the the producer of the event and somebody w runs up to him and is like, Wait, w the power is out. The stage is completely off. And he takes off running and I go to take off running after him. And my boy my boyfriend grabs my shoulder and he’s like, You don’t have to work this event. And I was like, but I could probably help. And he’s like So yeah, I know what that’s like, because there’s always these things that it’s just like, this is
Tom Shaw (07:30.308)
And then you realize.
You ain’t working this comedy.
Miranda (07:46.849)
I know a guy, okay? I know a guy that can make this stage issue never happen again. Do you want the contact? And they’re just like, ooh. So yeah, that’s a that’s a whole thing. But it is nice being able to have some impact on on the event instead of just being somebody who’s simply there absorbing it.
Tom Shaw (07:52.704)
Yeah.
Tom Shaw (08:06.7)
Mm. And I enjoy I enjoy being of service as well. I think that goes into every aspect of my life. I enjoy I enjoy doing shit, you know, for others, for myself that also helps others, you know, I think creation and being creative in whatever form is the most powerful powerful thing we can do to, you know, make the kind of life and world for ourselves that we want. So
Miranda (08:35.212)
I definitely think there’s something to that. It’s something that’s often overlooked. I think people get too bogged down into consuming the content and then like like we were talking, Kat and I were talking to Jeff about this.
And for me personally, I cannot consume the majority of people’s content because one, I’m easily distracted, and two, when the news is bad news, I’m easily depressed. And so I’m like, I have to stick my head in the sand and just get things done. But it leads to, you know, I think a lot of people have and would express that I am one of the one of the people out there actually living a life of freedom. And this isn’t just like down to my papers issue, which
is ever looming, but it’s how do you actually live free, you know? Do you just consume other people’s cons content and parrot things, or do you find ways to actually assist that within your lives and within the people around you, you know? That is question.
Tom Shaw (09:36.088)
And make all those things relevant to me as myself as my life and how best I go out into the world because all of these people can have great ideas and talk about whatever it is they’re seeing. At the end of the day, there has to be a process to integrate that to say, Okay, well, how that looks for me in my life in each individual moment that I’m in will not
No one else can speak exactly to that other than me. It has to be me who takes that on and works with it and creates something new out of it.
Miranda (10:12.504)
So, something that’s kind of been a theme in my life that it feels like natural to segue into this, and I distanced myself from certain freedom people in the community that I might have been close to in the beginning, early days of Anarch Polco, is the idea, I don’t know how best to say this other than shoving the freedom dick down the throat. There are certain people in this community that have taken it upon themselves to enlighten the world by telling everybody how they’re fucking wrong.
And this is generally online, and this is something that I’ve noticed you also don’t engage in, but has this ever been a thing that you’ve engaged in? And did you have a shift more to like for me personally, I used to engage in that and nobody would listen to me. Actually, a lot of people blocked me. And then I stopped doing that. I started living my life, just sharing living my life, and then all of a sudden people started believing me. Had did you have a similar experience with that?
Tom Shaw (11:04.74)
Mm-hmm.
Tom Shaw (11:09.228)
I don’t know if I ever did. I was always naturally gravitated towards okay, ever everyone’s life looks different. The only way that they can find their own path to freedom is to create it for themselves. So that’s just find out where they’re at and maybe I could give suggestions or where I see there’s something cool that’s that a cool aspect of freedom that they could create in their lives or or not. Like
Shoving it down the throat saying you’re wrong about this and that and the other thing and the other thing. That’s not a pathway. Whether whether you’re whether that’s correct to call them out or not, there is no pathway included in that to say, okay, you you’ve just told me and my whole worldview is wrong. What am I meant to do now? Like it’s not a it’s not a constructive dialogue. It’s if anything, it’s destructive. It breaks down everything, but there’s no there’s no building into
Miranda (11:57.015)
Right.
Tom Shaw (12:08.918)
Something that ultimately replaces whatever paradigm or narrative of control someone might have been living in previously.
Miranda (12:16.248)
Well the thing that they ultimately forget is like unless a certain thing happens, the majority of people are not interested in actually hearing ideas of freedom. Especially ideas of freedom that shape their worldview. They don’t give a shit.
Tom Shaw (12:30.903)
Anything.
Miranda (12:31.372)
When it when it matters is when, for example, like I have a lot of normie friends from high school that follow me on social media and what matters is they see me, I don’t have a passport, I don’t have bank accounts, but I’m traveling all over Mexico and I’m eating fine dining and I’m co doing cool stuff and I work from home and they’re like, Well, how do I do that?
And it’s like, well, you take control of your life and they’re like, I could not, I could not, you know. And some people just can’t. And I think that is a big thing that a lot of people, especially the older people in this community, somewhat forget, you know. They’re like, this person likes Trump and so I gotta tell them why they’re wrong. Or this person doesn’t care about this and so I have to tell them why they should. But that’s kind of missing the point.
I think it’s interesting that you never really had that phase. I feel like a lot of us go through that phase, and some of us grow out of it, and some of us just never do. And that’s an interesting thing. I want to segue into your story, because from what I know about your story is you were essentially in college going to school to be a dentist, and then you didn’t like what you were seeing in certain regards, and you
Bucked that and started more or less pursuing the freedom lifestyle combined with poetry. Like, how do you segue into that? Because most people, even if they they’re in college, right. Most people when they see something they don’t like, they’re like, Well, still, if I become a dentist, I’m gonna be set financially for life, so I’m just gonna do it, right? so I guess
Tom Shaw (13:59.492)
That’s that’s not a common half.
Miranda (14:14.636)
The question I’m trying to ask is where did you get the cojones?
Tom Shaw (14:19.522)
Well, it was I had the I am gonna say I had the good fortune because where I for where I am now it was good fortune of having th the covades, as Jeff likes to call it, appear right as I’m beginning my studies. and straight I remember so at that point I was very much in the conventional mindset narrative system about most things.
I remember a conversation we had on our junior clinics in January 2020 and one of our supervisors is talking about masks on the clinics because we use the surgical mask because if we’re drilling into someone’s tooth and there’s you know the inside of the tooth’s infected and it’s gonna spew blood everywhere, I don’t want that going on my face. so that’s that’s a genuine reason to have them.
and we were having a conversation about this at the start of the clinics and one of the supervisors says we’re really short on surgical masks because China are keeping them all for themselves because of COVID. I don’t know why, because e we even the manufacturers say they’re not to be used for protection against viruses. Like we had that in a in a in a mainstream, you know, conventional dental conversation in January twenty twenty.
And then a couple of months later, we have lockdowns here in the UK. At first they say, you know, that same line, the masks, you know, don’t work. They don’t do everything. And then almost overnight there’s a 180, and all the politicians are say, yes, you must wear masks. They help and protect. And me having seen this, I was like, well, hang on. You’ve completely flipped positions 180 overnight without presenting any new information, ideas, or evidence.
something’s going wrong. And for me that was when it clicked that, wait, this everything we’re seeing isn’t about health at all. It’s all about politics and control. Like it was obvio it was obvious to me in that moment. It just clicked. It was like it didn’t make sense why we’d done this crazy lockdown for a a virus that wasn’t very deadly. Like even in the like conventional training, it’s like, yeah, you don’t you don’t do this for pandemics.
Miranda (16:25.472)
Right.
Tom Shaw (16:44.63)
So even within these conventional narratives and constructs it it wasn’t adding up. and that just me being very curious and we have the I have that one line investigator that me that will go into human design and it’s like I gotta I gotta understand this shit and know what’s going on because it’s it’s not adding up. and that that leads me down the rabbit hole to seeing that, hang on, the whole of this health system is really just a
a lie to keep people ill without fully killing them until absolutely necessary just to U extract whatever life force out of them there is. Like, there’s it’s crazy, just the amount of poisons that go into people’s mouth for like dentistry wise, into their bodies, general health wise. And as I saw all this as building up through the through the lens of COVID, I came to a point where it was like I
morally and ethically, knowing what I know, I can’t continue down this path and ts within the within the training system, tick all the boxes of providing poisonous treat treatments to people just to get that piece of paper to says, Yes, I’m now a I’m now a qualified dentist.
Miranda (18:03.65)
Did you consider the holistic dentist path at that time?
Tom Shaw (18:06.944)
I did and I spent a lot of time speaking and I still know many great holistic dentists. My problem is that just to get that piece of paper to say yes I can go off and practice on my own now. I had to do whatever fluoride treatments or root canals and whatever it is just to get to that point on real people. Just to get the piece of paper to say, Okay, you we trust you to go off now And morally I wasn’t willing to put the lives of
patients who would come to me as a student as lower and poison them than the any prospect of being able to possibly do better in the future. For me, that’s not how it works. If I’m not being moral and ethical in my choices in the moment, doing what I know is right in the moment and not causing harm, then it does it doesn’t matter what happens in the future.
Miranda (18:40.215)
Right.
Miranda (18:56.632)
So so you’re saying like holistic dentists cannot become holistic dentists through holistic dentist only training. They have to become regular dentists and then just switch their practices.
Tom Shaw (19:08.11)
Correct. In pretty much every country the if you wanna if you wanna do it legally, you have to go through the conventional system first and then convert. So a lot of the holistic dentists that practice at the moment, most of them went through the full of their training before they realized how crazy everything they were doing was and then have pivoted at a later date. There isn’t really
Miranda (19:25.39)
Right.
Miranda (19:29.004)
But knowing while you’re in it, yeah, it’s hard to justify it, I get that.
Tom Shaw (19:32.042)
Yeah. And that was combined with me seeing the full medical system for what it really was and the lengths they would go to, especially with COVID, to coerce and control people. Because for us as students, we were we were mandated to have COVID jabs. I didn’t take it and I I was told by my supervisors you won’t be able to continue with the course if you don’t take it. eventually they relinquished the mandates and they
Quietly backed off me after I was saying, No, I’m not gonna do it. Here’s study after study and you know, opinion after opinion on, you know, why I’m not gonna do it. quietly they backed down. But at that point the damage had been done and I’d seen that that whole apparatus was about control, propaganda of both the doctors and dentists who are gonna be seeing patients, and then the patients themselves. There was a yeah.
Miranda (20:25.588)
Yeah, that’s interesting. So there’s two things I wanna touch on with that. One is the masks thing. it’s interesting because it makes sense, like, for example, before COVID, tattoo artists, for example, did not wear masks. But my tattoo artist kept wearing his after and it makes sense when he’s like this far from your skin making wounds in your skin to add tattoos. He probably shouldn’t be spitting on it and breathing on it accidentally, right? But like, even my dad, my dad is a
Tom Shaw (20:30.82)
Mm.
Miranda (20:55.83)
My dad’s an auto body, like a essentially a car painter, you know? And so he was he was also having a shortage of those masks. But he knew the whole time, cause he’s like, look, they teach us in in auto body school that these masks do not prevent everything from getting through and that paint particles and chemicals still get through these masks is better than nothing, but it doesn’t work. And he’s like, and supposedly viruses are way smaller, and how is that?
Tom Shaw (21:02.254)
We do.
Tom Shaw (21:16.82)
Yeah.
Tom Shaw (21:25.289)
logic.
Miranda (21:25.58)
blocking anything. And then you have these like woke people crocheting with these big holes masks.
Tom Shaw (21:32.548)
Well it’s fine because because when they’re you know when they’re sat down and having the meal, you know, the viruses don’t spread and then when they get up and go to the toilet, that crochet cloth mask with loads of holes in that’s that’s all the protection they need to, you know. The logic holds out the logic holds out every time, you know. And as long as everyone else is masked and jabbed five bazillion times, then you know, then it’ll work.
Miranda (21:46.271)
Yeah.
Right. And I made
Miranda (21:54.507)
Right. And I made a crochet mask for the expressed reason that there were certain things that I couldn’t do without wearing a mask. So if I was gonna wear a mask I was gonna wear one full of holes that I could actually breathe through.
Tom Shaw (22:05.924)
How how much fun did you have with it? ‘Cause I had good fun going into shops and supermarkets and just smiling at people without masks when I was supposed to had them on. And people would just give me confused looks. It was
Miranda (22:13.73)
Yeah, I mean in Mexico it was a little different, partially ’cause like I was out in the middle of nowhere. and so the only places that masks were required were grocery stores and banks. And in the little town that I lived in, there were no grocery stores and there were markets and nobody wore the masks, and then they would carry the mask in their hand up to the bank, put it on, walk in the bank, walk out, take it off. And same with the town that was like forty-five minutes away, you know, you’d go into the go up to the grocery store and everybody has the mask in their hand.
And they’re all complaining about how stupid it is. and then they would put it on, they’d go in, and then they take it off and as soon as they got out. But I think I wanna share the funniest thing that happened during COVID for me was actually the one checkpoint that we got stopped at.
Going in between these two places, there was a checkpoint, a government checkpoint. And they required everybody to put hand sanitizer on them. And you had to stick your hand out and get the hand sanitizer, right? The hand sanitizer was tequila and aloe vera. And I know that because they squirted it on my hand, and I was like.
Okay, this is where we’re at. This is this is where we’re at with all of this. and yeah, it’s it’s really interesting how widespread the the vaccine thing went. even here, like during COVID 2021, I started to get some dental work done finally. I’d gotten a little bit of money saved and I was getting dental work.
Tom Shaw (23:31.492)
Yeah.
Miranda (23:59.351)
And I don’t know if it’s spike proteins or what. I I’m one of those people that I’m not gonna go out and say viruses don’t exist because in my opinion there are a communicable set of symptoms that can be passed from one person to another. Is it a virus? Is it a bacteria? I don’t fucking know. But like there are communicable sets of symptoms that can be passed from person to person. And the reason I’m bringing this up is because my dentist was jab.
He was really respectful of me not wanting to use fluoride and things like that. But he had asked me, like, part way through if I had gotten the vaccine and I told him no and he was like, Okay. It was already too late by that point. He had already
pulled several bones out of my head type of situation. But what I did notice is partway through that, maybe this is too much information, but I did find it really interesting that I had the worst period of my life. You know, you have this guy with a mask who had this vaccine with his hands in his mouth for, you know, it was like a lot of hours per week over six weeks. And I was simply not able to stand up for like a day
during that. And I know a lot of women claim that and they claim it’s a spike proteins or whatever. I don’t know what it is, but I do know that there was something fishy going on there.
Tom Shaw (25:21.054)
Also in a in a dental context though, that’s a lot of physiological stress to have your body under. And then combined with the fact that there’s d maybe the dentist felt some kind of fear while operating on you. And I do think that fear and emotions in that way are communicable. Like there’s a I do think so. I think if that’s the emotion I’m feeling, if that’s what we’re, you know, putting out, we have a we have a
Miranda (25:44.61)
That’s interesting.
Tom Shaw (25:50.88)
a bio electric sphere that extends six feet out from us, that is affected by the emotional states that we’re feeling. If your dentist is then thinking in his mind, she’s, you know, unvaccinated against COVID, whatever ideas, that’s gonna interact and interfere with your biosphere and and potentially cause issues as well.
Miranda (26:16.12)
There’s also the fact I’m sure you’ve probably heard but people with red hair tend to need more anesthesia than people without. Like there are studies that prove this, right? Because of the g blonde gene mutation that leads to red hair. And this is the thing that I tried to express to him. And the physical stress thing I think had had a lot to do with it because it was very much a
I tried to explain I’m going to need more Novocaine than the average bear and he put the normal amount he puts in the Mexicans and goes to touch my very sensitive, problematic teeth, and I start yelling at him. And finally, like
I found an article in Spanish that explained because he doesn’t work on people that look like me very often. He works on Mexicans, right? And I finally find an article in Spanish that explains it. And he was like, so you’re not just complaining. And then he started giving me the proper amount of anesthesia. But like through a lot of that it felt like I was just being operated on with no pain management at all. And it’s not like I love Novocaine, you know, like nobody loves not being able to feel their face.
Tom Shaw (27:00.42)
Mm-hmm.
Miranda (27:25.29)
And I would rather not feel my face when, you know, terrible things are happening to it. so yeah, wow, okay. And then the poetry. So where does the poetry come in? Has the poetry always been there?
Tom Shaw (27:37.228)
Poetry, that’s actually a really beautiful segue, because the the poetry was my vehicle for saying, okay, I’ve got all these ideas and seeing different ways of looking at the world, how does that marry with what I intuitively feel about what I need to do and where I need to go? And how do I make sense of conflicting ideas that I’ve had? And I just started writing poetry. That’s
Miranda (28:03.968)
Okay, so y that wasn’t something you would did before that. It was something Okay, interesting.
Tom Shaw (28:06.646)
No. No, not at all. I remember as a as a kid and as a teenager I’d dabbled in like songwriting and writing short stories and stuff like that, but never poetry specifically. And it was as I was coming to terms with what the medical system actually was and just needing to pass all my thoughts out that I’d started putting it to poetry to see, okay, what can I make out of this? And
I did that and then I kept going and going and going and I haven’t stopped.
Miranda (28:42.796)
Yeah, you have at least one book out. I know there’s Go Forth Butterfly, right? is that the one where Unregistered Chickens is in?
Tom Shaw (28:47.352)
Yes.
Tom Shaw (28:52.183)
Yes, it is.
Miranda (28:54.144)
Okay, so for my audience, can you read it?
Tom Shaw (28:57.252)
yes, I don’t have it memorized off the top of my head, but I should have a book. I I should.
Miranda (29:02.818)
You should by this point, because you’ve read it several times on my behalf. So so for reference, Thomas MC’d a few events for Anarchopulco and Libre Polco this year, and pretty much always he finds a opportunity to read this specific poem because this poem is pretty relevant to my life, being born in Year of the Rooster, but also being more or less unregistered.
Tom Shaw (29:10.157)
I’ve got it.
Tom Shaw (29:19.3)
Mm-hmm.
Miranda (29:30.782)
So well he finds that. And this book can be gotten on Amazon.
Tom Shaw (29:30.838)
Mm-hmm. I say it’s useful enough. yes, however, I get like 10p from each sale. So I can I could give you a direct link where I get a bit more, which is nice. where’s it gone? It’s in here somewhere. Or is it? You know what? Unregistered chickens might not actually be in the book.
Miranda (29:41.268)
Okay. Yeah, give me the link.
Yeah.
Tom Shaw (29:59.862)
if I remember correctly now. Yeah, I don’t think it is.
Miranda (30:06.37)
Where is it?
Tom Shaw (30:07.612)
It is well, I do have a new book coming out and it is in that, so I can talk about that, but I can I can still pull it up for you.
Miranda (30:12.513)
Okay.
Tom Shaw (30:19.468)
Let me let me I should be able to find it. Bear with me. Imagine elevator music.
Miranda (30:22.828)
Now now for me
Miranda (30:27.906)
Perhaps. I feel like I saw it on your Instagram.
Tom Shaw (30:31.996)
It did it did go on yeah, it would have it would have been on there at some point when I had Instagram and I don’t have it now. They’re all just on Substack at this point, which is fun. But yeah, like like unregistered chickens, which I can read to you now. It goes like this.
Miranda (30:33.665)
Something like that.
Miranda (30:44.714)
okay, okay.
Miranda (30:50.722)
Okay, do it.
Tom Shaw (30:55.33)
We must stop those unregistered chickens. How dare they manage their own clucking lives? They walk the land, they don’t give a dickens, even when threatened by our great big knives. How dare they not rely on the state grain perfectly modified for what they need? They’re eating raw and they’re feeling no pain. Soon enough they’ll start growing their own seed and gathering in flocks of their own kind.
Living without wants, succumbing to rage, thinking without a propagandized mind, they’ll begin thriving with no pen or cage. How dreadful theirs unregistered chickens The very thought of them free just sickens.
Miranda (31:42.433)
Yeah. So I read that poem as somebody who is very I’ve always considered myself as somebody who never quite understood poetry, but that one I was like, yeah. Yeah. It’s a farm farm themed almost owed to the idea of, you know, John Galt in Atlas Shrugged, which I think you read that recently.
Tom Shaw (32:10.016)
I have just finished reading it, yes. The
Miranda (32:12.808)
Right. Which he goes on this like seventy page rant, if I remember correctly. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was it was a lot. But it that’s more or less the vibe of it, if I remembered correctly. Like what happens when the people who build the world shrug and stop, you know, like when Atlas, who has the world on his shoulder, shrugs? Like what happens when that happens, you know? And I think that
Tom Shaw (32:16.62)
Yeah, that that took a few things to get through.
Tom Shaw (32:33.486)
When they go on strike. Yeah.
Miranda (32:41.772)
I think that your poem Unregistered Chickens could be used as a summary for the Whois John Gold monologue, more or less.
Tom Shaw (32:48.385)
Yeah.
Tom Shaw (32:52.888)
Yeah, I’ll I’ll rip out those pages and I’ll just stick unregistered chickens in and I’ll start giving that as copies out to people.
Miranda (32:57.006)
Yeah, yeah, and I think that’s beautiful. And I think that’s like kind of nodding to what we were talking about earlier. And you know, we can talk about the problems of the world that we want, but if we don’t actually figure out how to learn things that are required to do that, you know.
how free are we actually, you know, and that’s something that I notice with a lot of I call them the talking heads of anarchy. A lot of these people really they kind of dwell on
the problems and that’s it. And when you look at them, they don’t actually have any skills as far as farming or even community building. Cause like you don’t necessarily have to be a farmer to survive the apocalypse. But if you don’t know how to do like conflict management or work in community and community management, what are you gonna really do if things get
Tough. and to with that I’m actually gonna I’m gonna segue into the Anarchopulco thing because you were still in Puerto Vallarta this year during the craziness of February 22nd. For those who don’t know somehow, if you were living under a rock basically, some guy named El Mencho got killed by what I think was probably the US government or US government adjacent people, and he got killed.
On the last day of Anarchopolco, I was stage managing TCV and very pissed that the apocalypse was happening around me. But it was interesting to see, one, how people in the community responded. and two, how they responded after the fact. for example, I used to have a lot of respect for Dan Dix.
Miranda (34:48.502)
Loved Dan Dix. Dan Dix has interviewed me, has helped me get my story out there. And Dan Dix over the years has been
especially with that situation and some other things he’s reported on recently, it’s more about the sensationalist emotional side and not actually about the facts. You know, he was reporting, Nobody, there are no flights leaving Puerto Vallarta and I’ve been here stuck here for two weeks and blah blah blah. When the reality was he was not willing to book another flight that wasn’t Air Canada. And that’s why he was stuck in Mexico where as many people had left as early as the next morning.
Tom Shaw (35:25.156)
I literally flew out a couple of days later on the flight that I booked originally. It there was no disruption it
Miranda (35:29.79)
Yeah, yeah, if I remember correctly, Dan not Dan Dix, Rafaela Verde was leaving the next morning and got on a flight the next morning after that. so what was your experience through all of that? And are you afraid of Mexico?
Tom Shaw (35:37.283)
Yeah.
Tom Shaw (35:44.068)
I am not afraid of Mexico at all. ‘Cause it’s funny because I because people know about this incident and I tell them that I was there and they’re always asking me like, I I’d be terrified to go back to Mexico, wouldn’t you? And I’m like, No, not at all. It was there was maybe there were maybe a cup an hour, maybe two where it’s like, This is this could be something crazy, but I’m gonna keep an open mind. ’cause I was in
I was in the sharing the flat with Kat, our producer, when we started getting news that things were being set on fire and whatnot. And so that that that me and Kat it sort of became this like central base of coordinations, communicating with everyone we could, making sure everyone was accounted for and could get stuff sorted and was safe and whatever. So being being around that energy is quite intense.
and my thinking was well, I don’t have all the pieces. I know that things are going up in flames. This could be serious, it could be not. I know I’m pretty safe right here. So let’s let’s just do what I can to see what more information comes out as I do what I can to remotely to try and get support to people who need it. And it was
Miranda (36:43.726)
Mm.
Miranda (37:11.188)
Right. Yeah, for me for me, like how I was realizing that things were happening was I was there, I was waiting for the start of TCV and Rafaela Verde was MC and also co-producer of that with me. And it’s like eight fifty-nine and he’s supposed to be on the stage at nine and I’m like, Where the fuck are you, Rafael? And like he’s just
Tom Shaw (37:13.376)
It was fine.
Miranda (37:37.394)
Not responding and then finally he walks in with his sunglasses. and I’m giving him shit for the fact he’s late. And then you know, I send his ass on stage, and the while he’s on stage I’m getting texts and videos of cars on fire, and I’m like, this is Mexico, cars get burned.
Tom Shaw (37:56.036)
This is so this is this is exactly what the neighbors said of the apartment we were or we were staying in, like we went to knock on the neighbors to find out and they’re like, yeah, it happens every couple of years. Our flight to Mexico City got cancelled, it’s fine, just stay in the house for a day or two and then it’ll be okay.
Miranda (38:02.605)
Yeah.
Miranda (38:13.566)
W yeah. Well the thing is, where it kind of started to feel serious is Kristabs comes up and whispers in my ear and Christophs I love Kristabs, but he was a little like they’re shooting people in the streets and and these people just showed up here and their taxi driver was murdered in front of them and I was like, that’s not great. And I walk outside and I see smoke in all directions and I’m hearing pop pop pop pop and I’m like,
Tom Shaw (38:28.652)
Yeah.
Miranda (38:43.682)
Okay, so I go and I tell Raphael and Raphael’s like, well, apparently the apocalypse is happening, like making jokes of it. But as soon as he’s off stage, he’s runs out the back of the venue and is looking for places to hide and escape. Which the only way off of that property that wasn’t through the front gate was literally through a crocodile infested
Tom Shaw (38:55.044)
Ha ha ha.
Tom Shaw (39:03.286)
Exactly.
Miranda (39:04.326)
marsh area. And he’s like, I’m gonna bet on the crocodiles. Well, I pick man versus crocodile, I’m picking the crocodiles. And I was like, my God. And he’s like, we need to shut this down and we need to get the fuck out of here. And I’m like, Raf, we have speakers on site. I’ve already coordinated with the speakers that weren’t here to get them on Zoom. And we have like 150 people that we should probably keep from panicking. We’re stuck here anyway. Let’s do our fucking jobs. And he’s like
Tom Shaw (39:09.38)
yeah.
Tom Shaw (39:30.04)
You’re stuck here. You’ve also got world class catering stuck there with you, which what a tragedy in the apocalypse.
Miranda (39:34.015)
Right, you know, and it and we were and I was just like, we need to just do it. He and I are literally yelling at each other in the hallway, and I was like, I can’t fucking talk to you. And he’s like, I can’t talk to you either. You’re crazy. And I’m like, Okay, so I messaged Jeff and I was like, Jeff, deal with your boy. This is what’s going on, and deal with him. Within five minutes of that, Roth messages me, You’re my warrior princess, with the like queen emoji, and I was like
So I mean, and I love Roth, but he talks big game and I was this and I was that, and I was like, you were scared. I was pissed because I was like, this is literally my last day of work. Are you fucking kidding me? He was scared. and I was like, all right, we’re stuck here anyway, right?
Tom Shaw (40:24.216)
And I think it’s different for you because you’ve got a hundred and fifty people there and managing their energy as well, whereas me annoying that is. Yeah.
Miranda (40:29.678)
Yeah, I had to be I had to be responsible for everybody. And and for the most part, everybody was chill. At a certain point, I had them like lower the blinds because I felt like we were birds in a cage, because they were they were threatening to come into government buildings, and the Porto Viert Convention Center is a government building. We hid our cars behind the thing, but nothing happened.
Tom Shaw (40:44.302)
Yeah.
Miranda (40:51.082)
Five o’clock rolled around, nothing happened. At a certain point, the Puerto Vallarta Convention said it was like, you can’t stay here. And I was like, Good, I’m fucking leaving. And I just got up and left. And then they they had ambulances coming and picking people up and delivering them there. They needed to be, and everybody got out safe for for the most part. so that’s interesting. We are, as you know, we’re doing the event in the same place as last year. I did go to P V. I just got back two days ago.
And it’s like nothing ever happened. The only bit of damage I noticed was one burnt-out building that it looks like they just decided they weren’t going to bother fixing it because it was already for sale, so they just left it hollowed out. But life is going on in Puerto Vallarta, more or less the same. It’s hot as hell there. It’s full of mosquitoes. But it’s more or less the same, right? So
Tom Shaw (41:33.518)
Mm-hmm.
Tom Shaw (41:46.392)
Yeah.
Miranda (41:48.939)
Despite all of that, I did push for us to have it at the same place as last year because from an event producer standpoint it is it’s way better. Way better. Like I love the secret garden. It’s beautiful. I love the people that run the secret garden. That’s where we held it in Acapulco. And
Tom Shaw (41:56.876)
It’s easy. To use Yeah.
Miranda (42:07.914)
It is so hard to manage when you have a bunch of people of pinkish complexion, as such as myself, needing to keep them out of the shade in an area where there’s, you know, jungle bungalows and not much else. Whereas the PVCC, you know, we had like a registration window section, which we’ve never had before, and everything was just easier.
Tom Shaw (42:24.259)
Yeah.
Miranda (42:36.07)
And yeah, I I had to laugh and I want to tell this a little bit about Raphael. I hope he doesn’t think I’m roasting him. He probably won’t even see this. But if he does, you know, I had to laugh because I messaged him about two months ago and I said, Hey, we’re gonna do, you know, TCV probably on this day. Are you in? And he’s like, Where? And I’m like, the Puerto Vallarta Convention Center. And he’s like, he’s like, Are you fucking crazy? Like, are you kidding? And I was like, I’m not.
Tom Shaw (42:56.824)
Your favorite place.
Miranda (43:04.714)
I thought you were Colombian because, you know, he he was like, yeah, it’s just like a Tuesday. I saw burning cars on the way in, it’s just a Tuesday, right? Just like that you see that in Colombia all the time and I like, So I thought you were Colombian And he was like, Okay, haha, I’m in So
Tom Shaw (43:21.92)
It’s like the it’s like yeah, it’s funny ’cause Chris that shared a story of one of the guys who’s meant to be going to the ’cause the retreats were happening on the same day. shares a story of well, all the guys and Chris is telling him, No, you can’t go there. There’s people being shot in the streets, no taxis will take you And the guy’s like I
Miranda (43:30.888)
Exactly.
Miranda (43:39.578)
He’s like they’re being brutally murdered. Later we found out the taxi driver was shot, but he was shot in the shoulder for going back into his car before they set it on fire and he’s fine. He’s completely fine. So
Tom Shaw (43:44.898)
Yeah. huh.
Tom Shaw (43:50.498)
Yeah. Yeah. But like this other guy was like one of the attendees was like, I’m from Lebanon. This happened shooting’s happened there. I’m I’m paid for my retreat. I’m getting there and lo and behold he manages to find a way to get there and he’s absolutely fine.
Miranda (44:04.29)
Yeah.
Yeah, so he and I we ha we that guy and I were were not on good terms, we’ll put it that way, because my I was charged with keeping people safe. And so when people were going outside, I was telling them, hey, get back inside, like it could be nothing, but also we’re hearing random gunshots and y you know, stray bullets are a thing, right? Even if they’re not being pointed at you their thing.
Tom Shaw (44:19.233)
Yeah.
Tom Shaw (44:22.626)
Yeah.
Tom Shaw (44:27.298)
Yeah.
Miranda (44:32.296)
And he told me I was an idiot and that I was just like all the people screaming danger and the Koves. And I was like, I hear you, but when we’re actually hearing gunshots and explosions, and like I was arguing with him and there’s like this motorcycle going down the street and this guy just like in the air, I’m just like turns out, in my opinion, a lot of those guys were just spreading terror. They weren’t shooting people in the streets, they they were shooting guns.
into the air at the ground to make it seem like that was what was going on. When from my understanding there was
Tom Shaw (45:04.226)
Mm-hmm. But it’s also impossible to know that immediately from the outset the when you just start hearing those sorts of things.
Miranda (45:10.856)
Exactly. So my whole thing is I’m gonna keep people more or less as safe as I can. And he was like, I’m gonna go. And I’m like, Alright, but you’re not taking other people with you. You’re not gonna go and tell everybody it’s fine and then have it not be fine. So if you’re gonna go, you’re gonna go on your own. Apparently he had contacted Chris Dops later and he had he did make it to the retreat center, but also he had seen enough along the way to where he
felt like he needed to apologize for the way he was talking to me because he was extremely irate and extremely rude and I was like, you know, just calling me an idiot. And I’m like, look, man, I’ve lived in Mexico for 10 years and th things do sometimes happen. You know, like I lived in the middle of nowhere and part of why I left was there was and people say, don’t get involved in drugs and you will never deal with the cartel. Okay, tell that to the avocado farmers.
Tom Shaw (45:41.156)
Mm-hmm.
Tom Shaw (45:52.729)
Okay.
Tom Shaw (46:05.62)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Miranda (46:06.018)
Tell that to the guys protecting the butterflies from the loggers that get killed on a regular basis. Or in this case, in this town, it is known, it’s called Hungapeo. It is known as the g the guava or guyaba capital of the world. This is where probably ninety percent of the guayabas are farmed in the world. And
Tom Shaw (46:09.38)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Miranda (46:25.28)
Probably, I don’t know, less like half a kilometer from my house at like four in the morning, I woke up to the sound of grenades and automatic weapons and all out war back and forth in that town, and it lasted about fifteen minutes and then it was done. And then the next day I went to investigate and they had indeed had an all-out cartel war at about four in the morning. Now they did it at intelligent time because civilians are not going to be on the street at that time.
Tom Shaw (46:54.936)
Mm-hmm.
Miranda (46:55.266)
You know, the farmers don’t start until five or six. Like, if you’re gonna do it, it’s gonna be at that time. But it’s not to say that nothing ever happens of that nature in Mexico. These things do happen. Just like they happened in the United States, you know, there are also gang and cartel wars and all of that shit happening there and various other places. I I don’t think, in my opinion, that Mexico is any more dangerous. I did end up fleeing the next day while
Tom Shaw (47:07.992)
Mm-hmm.
Miranda (47:21.74)
We just decided we just wanted to go the fuck home. And so we followed Jeff and his family. And I saw hundreds of burned cars. It did seem manufactured in some way because it was all across Mexico, all at the same time, over the same like eight hours, all of the major toll booths and everything from one end of Mexico to the other had burning semis and vehicles and things of that nature. So
Tom Shaw (47:40.804)
Correct.
Miranda (47:51.405)
That was a thing. It was a thing that happened. very interesting to see how people in the community responded to it. My big thing was I was I got real tired real quick. And that’s the thing I respected about Ralph is he did repeatedly, because Dan is like, I’m stranded, I’m stuck, I’m stranded, I’m stuck in the speakers group. And Ralph’s like, Hey, I got out by flying to Mexico City. You could go and book a flight to Mexico City and get out in an hour. Do that. And
Dan ignored him and continued, another day we’re stuck here, and I’m worried for the safety of my wife, and there are no flights leaving Port of Vallarta, and people are stuck, and people please send me money, send me money. And I was like, Yeah, are they fucking kidding me, dude? Just take a different flight, you know? And Roth called them out on that, and some other people did. But I lost all respect for him and people similar to him that were very much like.
milking that as a way to one get clicks, two, get donations.
So I don’t know how much you experienced of that, but that was a thing that went down.
Tom Shaw (49:01.044)
Thankfully thankfully not too much. ‘Cause as I said a couple of days later I got my flight no issues. I was out there and then I was I went into Florida no problems to go to one of Catherine Austen Fitz’s events. So it was like like it was fine. It was like I’m gonna take responsibility for myself. If if I end up in the middle of some gunfight and get shot, then hey the universe
Miranda (49:04.197)
well thank.
Miranda (49:18.625)
Yeah.
Tom Shaw (49:29.858)
decided to play a really sick joke on me that I can’t do much about.
Miranda (49:33.908)
Yeah. Which I don’t think any civilians got killed during that. I know there were some like cartel related deaths and that people c claim that they were civilian, I guess.
Tom Shaw (49:38.477)
No.
Tom Shaw (49:45.686)
Or people who were affected because let’s say, you know, they had an apartment above above one of the shops that was burnt out.
Miranda (49:53.527)
Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So let’s shift to human design for complete
Tom Shaw (50:00.034)
Yes. That’s that’s enough about shootings and burnings and But just just to I think to close on that and then bring us into human design is like there’s yeah. There’s there’s gonna be dangers wherever I go. Like going into the middle of London in the UK is, you know, crime central. You know, in many ways there’s, you know, as many risks there as there could be out in Mexico. What matters is
Miranda (50:04.49)
And violence in Mexico and you know
Tom Shaw (50:31.02)
Just as observing, assessing the situation, and then saying, what can I do in this in this moment? And with that, knowing humor design is a great way of knowing, okay, how am I likely to respond to things? What do I need to be mindful of when I’m trying to make decisions? It’s it’s a way of knowing thyself. And when I know that I know how I can show up
Miranda (50:55.051)
Yeah.
Tom Shaw (50:58.338)
without being governed by fear or need to get clicks or whatever it is. So that’s right.
Miranda (51:03.416)
So for me, like I was kind of a skeptic of the whole spirituality. You know, like I grew up and I was like a really witchy kid and I was into astrology. And then life happened in a s in such a way to where I was like, Yeah, it’s all random. There’s no God, there’s no this, there’s not there’s no rhyme or reason to any of this. It’s just what it is. And then a friend of Katz
At the time, Nova who was like, Let me do a human design reading. And I had just met her, and she she she read into my chart, and I’ve talked about this on other things, including rambling about it in my one solo podcast I did here. but basically she sent me a bunch of voice messages, and by the end of it, I was like, How do you know that? Like
How do you know that? Down to the fact that apparently the first thirty years of my life were meant to be chaos. And then I was meant to go into a hermit phase from thirty to fifty.
Where I kind of assess things, put my life back together, and then I emerge as the role model. And I was like 28 at that point, feeling the need to go into the hermit things, thinking it was probably a trauma response considering the fact that I witnessed a murder when community went wrong. turns out it wasn’t. And the more that I learned about my human design and the human design of the people around me, the more I’ve been able to embrace myself.
And the more that I’ve been able to just accept the way that other people work. You know, you can stop seeing yourself and other people when you realize that they’re completely engineered differently than you. and the thing I appreciate about our conversations is you are one of the few people that is actually beyond the initial reading info dump that I gave you, you’re one of the few people that’s been like rolling with it and finding ways to apply it to your life.
Miranda (52:56.332)
So I’m curious as to like what your thoughts were, I think back in January where I was dissecting you and your partner at the time, just, you know, in that restaurant while you both were kind of jet lagged. what about it made you kind of take it seriously beyond, okay, that’s weird, yeah, it makes sense, but I’m not gonna do anything about it, which is what kind of the majority of people do with it.
Tom Shaw (53:22.894)
I’m so I’m
I’m at the point of if I’m presented with something like that, it’s like I’m open to it. And I could see patterns where it those things haven’t applied previously into my life. So I was at a point of okay, that’s there could be something to this. And for me, the ultimate thing is, well, that’s let’s put it to a test. Let’s see what happens if I start, you know, doing these things and acting in accordance with this human design. And that’s really where it fully set in and why I keep experimenting with it, because I realised, yeah, this does play into
How I function as a human being. the proof is in the fact that it it plays out in different elements of my life and when I work with it, work with that knowledge and make decisions and do things in line with different aspects of my design, I get way I feel way more satisfied, satisfaction being one of the things in my chart than I would be otherwise.
Miranda (54:20.556)
Mm-hmm.
Tom Shaw (54:24.372)
And that that to me is the is the validation, is the proof.
Miranda (54:24.717)
Yeah.
Miranda (54:28.878)
For the people that maybe didn’t listen to my little rant about it or any of my other rants I’ve done in other podcasts, human design is this kind of astrological system. It’s it’s related to a lot of things that was created by this guy named Ra, and basically his story is he went out into the desert and s channeled what human design is from the heavens, and then came back and started
essentially manufacturing how to get the charts, how to interpret the charts, and creating the book, The Definitive Guide of Human Design. That book didn’t end up getting finished before he ended up passing away not long ago.
his people, his disciples, if you want to call them that, or the people he was mentoring, they ended up finishing that book with his knowledge that he had basically verbally expressed. But basically it’s a combination of tropical astrology, which is like normal astrology, Vedic astrology, I Ching, numerology, Chinese astrology, quantum physics,
And I feel like something else. But it’s basically a big bundle of things, and it fits out this chart. And what’s interesting about it is the chart has the nine centers, which are supposed to be chakras. According to him, we evolved from beings of seven chakras to beings of nine chakras. And soon we I forget the exact day, we will evolve to beings of ten chakras. So people born after that date will have ten centers instead of nine. Now, what are these centers? These chakras, well
the the head gets split into two. There’s the the mind center, there’s the ajna, which is like perceiving, then there’s the communication, the throat center. Below that there’s the the G center, which is about environment relationships, the ego identity center, the spleen, the sacral, the emotion center, and then the roots. And whether or not those are colored in or not depends on
Miranda (56:34.218)
your specific d time, place, and everything of birth, right? it is a it is a super fascinating system because this can determine everything from the best way you rest, how to make decisions, how you deal with emotions, how you digest food, how you digest life, where you belong in terms of physical environments. And the whole thing of it, and the whole thing that he pushed is
If you can learn your design and live most in your design, there’s gonna be two themes for each type. You know, there’s a generator and manifesting generators he groups together, in my opinion, they’re separate. Then there’s projectors, then there’s reflectors and manifestors, and you’re gonna be one of these five types. And if you’re feeling frustrated as a generator, you should probably look at your design and see what’s not in alignment, you know, like are you, you know.
not following your your proper sleeping pattern of going to bed only when exhausted. Or are you fasting when maybe that’s not meant for your body type? things of that nature. And it is also a really good tool for compatibility for teams, for people, for friends, for family. It is really interesting to see how that shakes out and how
we can work together in terms of that person just doesn’t function the way that I am, and there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. But you can honor that and understand it instead of I think the big mistake a lot of people, especially in this community, is that they s they keep expecting themselves in other people.
So there’s my little TED talk about it, but that’s the whole point of it is like if you don’t truly understand how you work, you’re never really going to be able to show up for yourself in this world. So I want to ask you, because I know you’ve been diving deep in your chart, what is the what is the most helpful thing that you have learned about yourself in terms of like what you need to honor? It’s probably something you already subconsciously knew, but like
Miranda (58:48.554)
What is what is the big thing with human design for you?
Tom Shaw (58:50.996)
Certainly speak to the most practical thing that’s come out of it, which is waiting before making a decision. Like be it just being really conscious of that has been huge for me. Even if it’s something that I’m pretty sure I’m gonna be a yes to. Like if someone presents me with an idea or something that I could work with them on, I’m still like, I think I’m gonna be a yes, but let me sleep on it and I’m gonna tell you for certain in the morning. normally and there’s there’s
Miranda (59:16.494)
Yeah. And that is related to the emotional. Go ahead.
Tom Shaw (59:20.438)
And in those cases there’s no there’s no harm in waiting. And sometimes if I’m really unsure it’s like, let me sleep on this. Maybe for a few days. and quite often it takes me time to work out what it is that I feel uncomfortable about.
Miranda (59:38.743)
Right. What you’re what he’s referring to for people watching is the emotional center. If you’re defined there, most likely you’re gonna be emotional authority, which means like that’s one of the biggest things that human design can give is depending on the person and the type, it’s gonna tell you what you need to pay attention to for your decision making. Cause most people are gonna tell you, follow your heart or follow your gut. And the truth is the mo majority of people cannot trust.
you know, their intuition or their gut. They have to be paying attention to other things. For you and I both, it’s the emotions. And for people watching this, maybe you’ve been in a situation where you were in a really good mood and somebody came up to you with some, you know, decision of like, hey, do you want to do this like big commitment? And you were like, fuck yeah. And then like two weeks later, you’re like, and then it’s time to actually do it. And you’re like, why did I agree to that? I don’t want to be doing this.
That’s where it comes through. You need to wait through this high and then low before you make major decisions. Now, like, are we talking about what should I have for dinner that day? No. We’re talking, do I move to another country? Do I take this job that’s been offered? Do I start or end this relationship? Right. it saves so much and it takes a lot of the guesswork out because there are a lot of people that are just like, yeah, just follow your gut.
Maybe not. Or your intuition. Like for me, I’m undefined in my spleen, which is the intuition center. I cannot I cannot trust my intuition in that in that way as far as making major decisions. so I think that is one of the valuable things. And also each type has something that they should or should not be doing. For example, projectors need to wait for invitations before they share their insights.
You and you’re a generator, I’m a manifesting generator. We need to wait to have something to respond to. That’s the biggest thing for me, is because. Yeah, it’s like I’m chasing shit. I’m like, I’m running after opportunities. And it leads to a lot of frustration. But the reality is if you find yourself chasing anything, you’re not living in accordance with your design. You need to sit there and you need to wait to have something to respond to, and then
Tom Shaw (01:01:38.072)
That’s been big for me. That would be number two for me is
Yeah.
Miranda (01:01:57.793)
respond and on this on the emotional thing I’ve talked to my friend about it like w when making another decision like what if I’m not sure you know because and what she told me is if you’re not a fuck yes, you’re a fuck no. And you have to be a fuck yes for it to be right for who you are. And if it’s not clear, it’s either a no or it’s a not right now.
And that has brought so much help as to like, ’cause it’s not always clear. Even after you go through that, you might get to the other side of it, be at the middle and be like, I still don’t know. That means it’s a no, you know. And there’s some beauty in that.
And you’ve been talking about the idea of applying this to the idea of starting businesses. Can you share about that a little bit?
Tom Shaw (01:02:47.894)
Yeah. in brainstorming business ideas and just thinking about how I approach even just any work, to be honest, it’s something quite fun I’ve been doing is I put my whole design into AI agent of choice, then put in like a business idea or a work and say, like, give me some insights on how I should approach this given my charts.
And it’s pretty good at being able ’cause you’ve given it this really chunky data set, which is your human design, it’s pretty good at pulling relevant parts out of there to say, okay, be you know, be mindful of if you’re a generator, wait for something to respond to. You work best if you’re, you know, getting feedback and surveys and validating your ideas by speaking with people about what you’re thinking or letting them give you ideas.
before diving in and doing something and not chasing. Or it’s, you know, for me, you know, having the one line of the investigator need to, you know, go in and research a topic really thoroughly before saying, okay, now I’m ready to act.
Miranda (01:04:00.429)
Yeah, I think there’s something to that. Yeah, I think there’s something to that. ‘Cause you know, and each each type has their own little strategy, right? Like the manifestors, they they’re the ideas people, they come up with the ideas, right? And then their job is to inform
Tom Shaw (01:04:01.156)
Yeah, so that’s
Miranda (01:04:18.336)
the generators and the generators are the one that do it. The manifestors aren’t necessarily here to make the things happen, right? The generators are here to build things. And it’s interesting, it’s almost a paradox, especially for people that are anarchy minded, because
Part of that waiting to have something to respond to is we are waiting for people to give us indication of what to do. And when you’re in this anarchist world, you’re kind of railing against the idea of anybody telling you what to do, even if it’s like with the best, you know, hopes and intentions at heart. but alternatively, when you have, for example, projectors or you have manifestors.
Tom Shaw (01:04:50.724)
Mm-hmm.
Miranda (01:05:01.918)
We have this world built on go, go, go, work, work, work, output, output, output, because 70% of the world are either manifesting generators or generators. And so the 30% of people that just aren’t, that don’t have sustained energy, they’re then more or less attacked by the world because why aren’t you doing things?
Why aren’t you working hard? Why aren’t you making things? Well, they’re literally not designed to do that. I think we’d have a lot more peace in the world if we were able to identify those people who can take an idea and roll with it. and I think when it comes to being an entrepreneur, you know.
For for example, me, I’m great at getting things done. Am I always great at knowing the thing in the moment? No, not unless I have a projector there who I’ve invited to assess what I need to do, or a manifester there. And I have an easier time being manifesting generator. I do have that like blend that most people that really don’t have. But it is it is interesting finding a way to exist in this modern world.
you are in a world that where nobody honors what it is that they are. It is quite beautiful and at times quite messy, in my opinion. But I am glad that I have human design without it. I would not have really any understanding for myself and for the way that things work and
Tom Shaw (01:06:24.728)
Yeah.
Miranda (01:06:36.591)
this leads me to a sort of a question, ’cause I don’t know if you met Logan in twenty twenty five. Did you meet him? Okay, so Lo
Tom Shaw (01:06:43.14)
No, I didn’t. I mean I know of him, but we’ve not we’ve not personally interacted.
Miranda (01:06:49.12)
Okay, so my friend Logan, he does the channel Decode Your Reality. He came to Anarchopolco in 2025, and he’s really interesting because he’s really big on this stuff. Like decode your energy, do the numerology, do the playing card, and figure out all of these things, and you can figure out the way that you work and the way that you’re supposed to show up in this world. What I find interesting about him is he is really stuck on predestination.
We are given a script. This reality is scripted. It doesn’t matter what choices we think we’re making because it’s scripted and things are gonna go the way that they’re gonna go regardless of what we try to do. I personally don’t buy into that. so I’m curious as to what your thoughts on that is, and then I’ll share my thoughts after.
Tom Shaw (01:07:36.15)
My perception of it, how I
What I what I work with when I think about this is we’ve been given a set of circumstances for a particular reason and we’ve come here to learn something. And it’s purely through doing and making decisions, w whether it is us making the decision or predetermined or not, it doesn’t matter. As long as we think we’re making the decision, that’s what matters because we’ve I believe all of us have come here to learn something through
this specific human design that I have in this specific moment in time and place and through through me making decisions, that is, there is something that our wider consciousness learns from me being embodied in this matrix in this moment that I can then bring wisdom back to the collective across time and space. Is that a concise answer?
Miranda (01:08:36.174)
I don’t know if you guys had these types of books. apparently when I brought this up to my boyfriend, he did not ever encounter these types of books in Mexico, at least not in his super religious childhood that he had, but basically, choose your own adventure books. You’re given a chapter, and then you’re given like three choices. And it’s like go to page 56, go to page 70, go to page six, right? And
Tom Shaw (01:08:41.26)
Yeah.
Tom Shaw (01:08:54.402)
Yeah, yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Miranda (01:09:03.112)
That’s how I think it works. I think we’re given little bits of scripts and then we have a choice of how we’re going to respond. And and Logan completely disagrees with that. It doesn’t matter and you’re all the energies and you’re none of the energies. And there’s no such thing as good energy or bad energy or, you know, whatever, right? I think there’s I think that can be a sort of a cop out for people that have made a lot of mistakes in their life.
Tom Shaw (01:09:05.252)
Well.
Tom Shaw (01:09:09.868)
I think so. Yeah.
Miranda (01:09:32.227)
I don’t know, you know, like when I think of my own story I’ve been through a lot of shit.
The majority of people that go through shit that I do, they just end up addicted to substances and fucking depressed. Whereas I made the choice of like, I’d rather live my life, you know, and that is why I am, you know, like my legal situation’s not great, right? But everything else in my life more or less is. And I have encountered all of these little people, you being one of them, not that you’re little, you’re actually quite tall. But
I have encountered all these people and built this family and all of this stuff because of the choices that I’ve made. And there were points where it was like, okay, you’re presented with, you know, college and it’s liberal as hell. are you going to one stay in college? Two, drop out and become an activist. Okay, I dropped out and become an activist. Okay, now you’re presented with arrest. Are you going to stay and fix it? Or are you going to run and answer the call to adventure? And each
thing along the way has really led me, led me down to what I’ve been doing. And so, yeah, I thought that was a fun little rabbit hole to go down. And I like to ask people that because I think the majority of the people do feel that way. We get little things that like we can’t really control, but we do control how we deal with them. and I think there really is something to that. The last thing I want to talk about is what’s next for you. Cause I know you’re in a period of transition of
figuring out where you wanna be, what you wanna be doing long term, and how you wanna show up for the world. So where does that land now?
Tom Shaw (01:11:15.724)
Right now, I’m gonna move house. Still in the UK, but I am gonna move house. That’s that’s something. I wanna explore a little more of the world. I know that much. And that’s that’s about as and experiment with a a fun few business ideas. That’s about as many pieces as I have at the moment.
Miranda (01:11:20.225)
Okay.
Miranda (01:11:41.186)
Yeah, I’m not gonna expose your age, but you are at an age where you very much are like it would be silly to okay, yes, this is sh for sure what’s going on. Like when I was your age, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I just knew that I wanted to do something important. And now, you know, at this point in my life, like I have my business, I have anarchopoco, I have
My life established as it is, and I see that you’re transitioning into that in a much less messy way than what I did. So congratulations for not being a total shit show.
Tom Shaw (01:12:17.088)
It it might be a bit early to say maybe there’s some some craziness still left for me. I don’t know. I’ll find out when I get there.
Miranda (01:12:25.196)
All right. So when are you coming back to Mexico? That’s my next question.
Tom Shaw (01:12:28.785)
definitely for an Acapulco. maybe maybe before. Probably after.
Miranda (01:12:31.553)
Okay.
Miranda (01:12:34.936)
To figure out maybe somewhere in this snake country as a snake human.
Tom Shaw (01:12:40.133)
I know I know you’re I so we could we can talk about this ’cause we have human design. I’ve also been getting really into Chinese astrology for locations and where we work best and I know me as me as snake Mexico is meant to be a good country for me. And you you you
Miranda (01:13:00.418)
The whole country in general and then there’s like little pockets that are really good and we can talk about that later. but Tom, thank you for taking the time to do this. I am looking forward to posting this and seeing the response that I get from people. I need the proper GoForth butterfly link and any other links that you want me to share and
Tom Shaw (01:13:05.228)
Yeah.
Tom Shaw (01:13:22.52)
Yes. I do I have a new book comi that’s coming very soon. I’m not sure if it will be announced in time for when this podcast goes live, but it’ll be
Miranda (01:13:31.597)
Okay. Well people pay attention to him. You’re on Substack primarily now, right? Okay. Well Yeah. Okay, that’ll be in the description for anybody who’s interested.
Tom Shaw (01:13:35.466)
Yes. Yeah. That’s a way to find it.